All this commotion about the Mjölner

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goetzjam wrote:

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Caustic2 wrote:

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goetzjam wrote:

You still have the items with THE ROLLS they had when released but because they aren't perceived as broken its ok they were made legacy.

But because mjolner will still work after the tree changes and not be completely dumpster we need to retroactively nerf an item because of it?

Not only will it not be completely dumpster, but it will be buffed. Again, because what seems like literally everything else in this game is being nerfed, mjolner should should be retroactively nerfed.

Thats not how they make changes to unqiues, nor should it be, you seem to be completely ignoring every single point I've made on the whole legacy item process.

Again, you're just arguing for the preservation of the status quo instead of actually discussing balance. It would be far preferrable if they changed policy on this so that they could balance things in a more straight forward manner instead of coming at things from angles that can fuck up other builds. Shit changes man, deal with it.

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Caustic2 wrote:

Again, you're just arguing for the preservation of the status quo instead of actually discussing balance. It would be far preferrable if they changed policy on this so that they could balance things in a more straight forward manner instead of coming at things from angles that can fuck up other builds. Shit changes man, deal with it.

Dude its legacy unqiues in terms of balance they are created so the temp leauges can be balanced. If they were going to balance the game 100% across they board THERE WOULD BE NO LEGACY UNQIUES, but there are, koams, shavs, WR (to a point), CoD, LC, BoR, I could go on and on, the fact of the matter is legacy unqiues are created, they exsits in standard, as such this item is no different. You arguments you've made could be applied to every single unqiue item ever.

The game does change, it seems you are having the one dealing with it. Not me, because I will enjoy my legacy mjolner after 2.0.

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goetzjam wrote:

Thats not how they make changes to unqiues, nor should it be, you seem to be completely ignoring every single point I've made on the whole legacy item process.

I really hope he is ignoring your "points" because already 2 people told you that you are wrong plus they told you an equal change that has already happened in the past to prove you are wrong.

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The game does change, it seems you are having the one dealing with it. Not me, because I will enjoy my legacy mjolner after 2.0.

Wow nice, in that case you own the only legacy mjölner in game! ;)

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goetzjam wrote:

Dude its legacy unqiues in terms of balance they are created so the temp leauges can be balanced.

Game started 2011 (maybe earlier) first temp leagues started march/april2013 so please explain to us how they balanced stuff for leagues that were not even there for the first years! lol

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666lol666 wrote:

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goetzjam wrote:

Dude its legacy unqiues in terms of balance they are created so the temp leauges can be balanced.

Game started 2011 (maybe earlier) first temp leagues started march/april2013 so please explain to us how they balanced stuff for leagues that were not even there for the first years! lol

Your arguments are extremely weak. When they created the idea of leagues AND the idea of legacy items that is when they made the choice to not balance EQUALLY for temp leagues and standard, its literally impossible to do so due to legacy mods, gem(s), rolls, unqiues ect. If you don't see that don't bother responding to me anymore.

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I really hope he is ignoring your "points" because already 2 people told you that you are wrong plus they told you an equal change that has already happened in the past to prove you are wrong.

If I stopped posting because 2 people said I was wrong I probably wouldn't be posting anything. People disagree and agree, others on here have fought and explain for creating legacy mjolner much like I have, by that logic 2 people said I am right and you are wrong. Not to mention my logic falls in line with what GGG has done in the past. While your 2's is with whatever you think they should do, kinda big difference there....especially when you want to hush someone like you are trying to do with me.


@caustic is trying to fight for mjolner to get nerfed because he doensn't own one, use one or care about it aside from the fact its a desired unqiue. I wonder if he would be ok with exchanging every single one of his legacy items for the new rolls, you know for the sake of balance. This includes non unqiue items of course, because by his logic and yours you want standard, a league that has mods, rolls, items that aren't available to temp league players to be just as balanced as the rest of the game.

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goetzjam wrote:

@caustic is trying to fight for mjolner to get nerfed because he doensn't own one, use one or care about it aside from the fact its a desired unqiue. I wonder if he would be ok with exchanging every single one of his legacy items for the new rolls, you know for the sake of balance. This includes non unqiue items of course

Well, considering my marauder is pretty much defunct, I wouldn't mind that at all. And no, I don't give two shits about owning a mjolner. Between what I have in my stash and the gear I currently own that I could sell, I could easily afford a mjolner. Nice try though, strawman harder.

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goetzjam wrote:

because by his logic and yours you want standard, a league that has mods, rolls, items that aren't available to temp league players to be just as balanced as the rest of the game.

No, it's just that if mjolner isn't retroactively nerfed, it will be even more insane with the gavel and discharge buff. I don't think it's fair to buff it when literally everything else is getting nerfed. What's fair is fair.

So much... wrong.

1) No-legacy buffs and nerfs occur because the they affect an internal mechanic, not an affix listed on an item. The listed affix remain unchanged, but adhere to the new rules.
2) Legacy-generating buffs and nerfs change the affix listed on a unique (even adding or removing entire lines) and occur because GGG will not and / or cannot affect existing items. The listed affix do not automatically update.
3) Inherent attributes (base damage, attack speed, critical strike chance, requirement) automatically update when changed. Base item type does not.

If Mjolner's proc rate is nerfed, then it will generate a legacy item. If Mjolner's base item's inherent attack speed is increased, existing legacy Mjolner's will benefit from the change.

The only exception to the above has been Acuity, which was such a collossal fuck up as to warrant retroactively de-legacy-ifying exiting items. If you care to compare Mjolner to Acuity as prescedence, you can just leave now (because lolreally?). Otherwise, this is how it has always worked.

Go to school, kids. Don't do drugs.

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CanHasPants wrote:

So much... wrong.

1) No-legacy buffs and nerfs occur because the they affect an internal mechanic, not an affix listed on an item. The listed affix remain unchanged, but adhere to the new rules.
2) Legacy-generating buffs and nerfs change the affix listed on a unique (even adding or removing entire lines) and occur because GGG will not and / or cannot affect existing items. The listed affix do not automatically update.
3) Inherent attributes (base damage, attack speed, critical strike chance, requirement) automatically update when changed. Base item type does not.

If Mjolner's proc rate is nerfed, then it will generate a legacy item. If Mjolner's base item's inherent attack speed is increased, existing legacy Mjolner's will benefit from the change.

The only exception to the above has been Acuity, which was such a collossal fuck up as to warrant retroactively de-legacy-ifying exiting items. If you care to compare Mjolner to Acuity as prescedence, you can just leave now (because lolreally?). Otherwise, this is how it has always worked.

Go to school, kids. Don't do drugs.

Haven't you read what they've been saying they HAVE TO NERF mjolner across the board because they are buffing skills used by it and the base attack speed, its NOT FAIR for them to buff a build that is already preforming well, even though they are technically nerfing it for temp league players.

(the other exception was CoE, but that wasn't simply a numeric change like CoD 40>30 or like this mjolner's 50>30, but they fail to see that)

All this legacy item talk makes me wonder if I should go back to my old stance of "this game is beyond salvation, stop trying to fix it ,begin development of sequel."

CoE was not an exception, it was neatly filed away under 2) changing the rules behind the item (no legacy)--something clearly not being done with Mjolner, which is 1) changing the item (legacy).

@Scrotie: Why? Because some people like to whine more than they have good sense? Or are you suddenly against legacy items?