General Discussion - watching Streamers do the Hardcore one-month, made me realize something - Forum

" morbo wrote: GGG allows escaping from fights (wia TP or logout) so that fights can be designed more spikey and adrenalinic. This pretty much means that fleeing is a gameplay feature / option. There's also desync, which can or not be player's "fault" (mostly it's not), which can put you in an un-fair situation (because it's a technical issue) and thus logging out is acceptable. I've logged out several times in HC & SC, most of it because of desync. Or what I thought is desync, but since in PoE you don't have time to contemplate - better safe than sorry. I view it as a gameplay 'feature' (I dont like such design, but adapt to it none-the-less). On the issue of "actually fighting stuff", paying for boss kills is a much worse offense, imo :) (but both these activities are intentional and designed for) I want to ask you about your first sentence. I don't have an opinion on anything after. I don't understand how something can give you an adrenaline rush when it seems there is an easy escape to the situation. Or I guess if I asked it a different way. If immediately closing the application saves you from dying in most instants, why would any situation excite you? I'm not familiar with how affective that tactic is in this game.	Posted by kan333 on Mar 26, 2015, 2:00:06 PM Quote this Post
yeah in an ideal world a game that has the damage/life regen/damage mitigation and all systems perfect wouldn't require you to logout and you would only die if you play it bad. But this isn't the ideal world and this is not the game you are playing. Right now you have 2 options when you play the game and make a mistake (including approaching fights you are not 100% ready to take one) : 1. Drop dead because you refuse to log out in a futile situation. 2. Log and live to fight another day. Why should people just give up on all their progress and die because of situations that are often not their fault? Now desync can largely be played around and is often caused by the player's mistakes but should the players be punished for it? If you see your life dropping fast and you are not surrounded by mobs should you just stay there hoping the server would resync you and you can escape that situations or should you log and go back and clean up that room? Being able to log in a dangerous situations actually allows players to try harder content and push their characters further than normal, especially in HC leagues. LLD BOTW spark/arc caster guide http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1133731	Posted by andkamen on Mar 26, 2015, 2:00:31 PM Quote this Post
" kan333 wrote: " morbo wrote: GGG allows escaping from fights (wia TP or logout) so that fights can be designed more spikey and adrenalinic. This pretty much means that fleeing is a gameplay feature / option. There's also desync, which can or not be player's "fault" (mostly it's not), which can put you in an un-fair situation (because it's a technical issue) and thus logging out is acceptable. I've logged out several times in HC & SC, most of it because of desync. Or what I thought is desync, but since in PoE you don't have time to contemplate - better safe than sorry. I view it as a gameplay 'feature' (I dont like such design, but adapt to it none-the-less). On the issue of "actually fighting stuff", paying for boss kills is a much worse offense, imo :) (but both these activities are intentional and designed for) I want to ask you about your first sentence. I don't have an opinion on anything after. I don't understand how something can give you an adrenaline rush when it seems there is an easy escape to the situation. Or I guess if I asked it a different way. If immediately closing the application saves you from dying in most instants, why would any situation excite you? I'm not familiar with how affective that tactic is in this game. you obviosly don't play HC. Go and play the 1 month HC league and make it to maps and play there for a while. I can almost guarantee you that if you go back to SC then indeed most situations will seem boring and unexciting because death means nothing there. What excites most HC players is the possibility of death and the feeling when you beat a fight and didn't die. " I agree with what your saying. I define it as being tactical. Personally, I stop short of closing an application to avoid death. In my opinion, it's not an acceptable tactic to a mistake I've made. If I were ever to feel like that is a option I have to take to make the game play acceptable, then I wouldn't play that game mode. It's also the reason I don't play HC modes in this game. yes you'd rather drop dead everytime you make a mistake or the game throws you in a situations that will kill you. And thats the reason you dont play HC. LLD BOTW spark/arc caster guide http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1133731 Last edited by andkamen on Mar 26, 2015, 2:06:44 PM	Posted by andkamen on Mar 26, 2015, 2:04:05 PM Quote this Post
" andkamen wrote: Why should people just give up on all their progress and die because of situations that are often not their fault? They shouldn't. But I question, why you would want to play a game mode that has those constant uncontrollable consequences. If someone is willing to close the application because of lag will they also be willing to close it because a mistake they made on their own? Should you actually be playing that game mode if that's your answer to difficult situations? " andkamen wrote: you obviosly don't play HC. Go and play the 1 month HC league and make it to maps and play there for a while. I can almost guarantee you that if you go back to SC then indeed most situations will seem boring and unexciting because death means nothing there. What excites most HC players is the possibility of death and the feeling when you beat a fight and didn't die. I've had many 90+ lvl hardcore d2 characters. But like stated already, I don't find that an acceptable tactic. So, I do not choose to play a mode with how they've designed their game play and implemented their net code. Because, like you said I'd prefer to die from my own mistakes and not something else. I'd also like to point out that death in this game does not carry the same kind of consequences as some past arpg. Last edited by kan333 on Mar 26, 2015, 2:10:56 PM	Posted by kan333 on Mar 26, 2015, 2:06:15 PM Quote this Post
-combined above Last edited by kan333 on Mar 26, 2015, 2:11:28 PM	Posted by kan333 on Mar 26, 2015, 2:08:49 PM Quote this Post
So I should just stick to SC like you because sometimes I refuse to die and log? If you think that the ability to logging out can save you 100% of the time then you obviously have not played the game enough. Especially on HC leagues. Sometimes if you fuck up you can take so much damage so quickly that neither potting nor logging out will save you. And situations like that can occur surprisingly often in this game especially if you play your cards bad. Isn't it at least somewhat exciting to you to know that you didn't die because you played the game right? " I'd also like to point out that death in this game does not carry the same kind of consequences as some past arpg. This point is mute :/ Its not a relief that my dead character is in standard. Most people just stop playing their dead characters. ps. Ok I just rearead my post above and they came out meaner than I meant them to be. Sorry about that. I don't have anything against you or how you or other people play their game be it sc/hc, if they log or dont. It just buggs me when people try to impose their way of playing the game on others (in this case JohnKeys suicidal perspective and dislike of logging) and they insist that the others are wrong for playing the game as they currently are LLD BOTW spark/arc caster guide http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1133731 Last edited by andkamen on Mar 26, 2015, 2:17:28 PM	Posted by andkamen on Mar 26, 2015, 2:09:45 PM Quote this Post
" kan333 wrote: " morbo wrote: GGG allows escaping from fights (wia TP or logout) so that fights can be designed more spikey and adrenalinic... I want to ask you about your first sentence. I don't have an opinion on anything after. I don't understand how something can give you an adrenaline rush when it seems there is an easy escape to the situation. Or I guess if I asked it a different way. If immediately closing the application saves you from dying in most instants, why would any situation excite you? I'm not familiar with how affective that tactic is in this game. First of all, it's not a 'tactic', but a 'panic button'. I don't play with the intention to logout at every moment. I play with the intention to beat content. I design balanced builds, prepare for fights beforehand and know the limits of my build / gear and dangers of the current environemnt (what I can defeat and what is better to skip for later). But in PoE you can never be prepared 100%. Open a strongbox in a tight space and many things can go wrong: loading lag, FPS drops, desync, impossible to exectue your escape plan.. whatever. If you cant fight off such a situation, then escaping is an option. Mostly by TP, but I've logged out a few times too. The fights in this game are short and deadly. I'd prefer a more attrition-based, longer fighting, but it is what it is. GGG specifically said that fighting is balanced around escape options. And since you can die so fast, the game still offers an adrenaline experience, even if you could escape at any moment. When night falls She cloaks the world In impenetrable darkness Last edited by morbo on Mar 26, 2015, 2:21:24 PM	Posted by morbo on Mar 26, 2015, 2:18:19 PM Quote this Post
" andkamen wrote: Why should people just give up on all their progress and die because of situations that are often not their fault? Because it's hardcore. The point of playing hardcore is to avoid lethal mistakes and if such happen, character is lost. No matter if due to game technical issues, emergency technical issues, bad circumstances. Every true hardcore player knows the risks. " andkamen wrote: Being able to log in a dangerous situations actually allows players to try harder content and push their characters further than normal, especially in HC leagues. This is not hardcore. But softcore. Or pseudo hardcore. Or PoE hardcore. Call it whatever. If they ever implement delayed logout, I will laugh my ass off. But I know it'll never happen. This is a buff © 2016 The Experts ™ 2017 Last edited by torturo on Mar 26, 2015, 2:22:18 PM	Posted by torturo on Mar 26, 2015, 2:20:40 PM Quote this Post
" johnKeys wrote: first and foremost, it made me respect ZiggyD. the guy died in the first day. twice. but he died actually fighting stuff. his entire rip-log video is full of "I should have logged out", so let me be the first to say - no, Ziggy, you shouldn't. and yes, you sure as fuck did the right thing to come back from the portal and try to kill the thing. let this be an example to all you PoE players out there, streaming or not: when you log-out at the slightest sign of danger. when you abuse portal/area grace periods and TP out after taking one hit for less than 50% of your health. when you are skipping bosses.... you aren't playing the game. you maybe are "competing" and whatnot, but you aren't playing. I'll get a lot of flame for this, so bring it on. I can take it. ask yourselves, are you ready to play Path Of Exile? yes, you may RIP in HC. yes, you may lose some EXP in SC and maybe a position on the ladder because the guy below you didn't have the fucking balls to take on this boss - but whoever dubbed "not logging out" a "mistake", whoever says "skip this", whoever abuses and exploits the fuck out of the game just to stay alive - is a bloody idiot. even if his cowardly tactics and a bunch of good friends willing to die for the cause, get him top of the ladder - he'd still be an idiot. I hope someone, someday will speak of me like this on the forum when my LVL6 shadow die to a lvl 15 exile. Glorious	Posted by saltyvu on Mar 26, 2015, 2:21:18 PM Quote this Post
" andkamen wrote: So I should just stick to SC like you because sometimes I refuse to die and log? Nope, you should play whatever makes you happy and entertains you. " If you think that the ability to logging out can save you 100% of the time then you obviously have not played the game enough. Especially on HC leagues. I mentioned above I wasn't sure how effective the tactic actually was. " Sometimes if you fuck up you can take so much damage so quickly that neither potting nor logging out will save you. And situations like that can occur surprisingly often in this game especially if you play your cards bad. And dying is the result of "fucking up" and making a mistake. That's the point of playing hardcore. If you make a mistake it costs you the life of your character permanently. This game is a bit kind in that it allows you to continue playing the character elsewhere if you so choose. That's why I've enjoyed playing hardcore in the past and still do in other games. However, if you constantly feel like the game is creating situations where you might die from things completely outside of your control than that's not acceptable. This is what I was referring to when I asked if you get entertainment out of that and having to use those means to circumvent those issues. If you do then no problem. Since the only thing that matters is if you're having fun. " Isn't it at least somewhat exciting to you to know that you didn't die because you played the game right? Sure. I'm assuming you're talking about handling a difficult situation and succeeding. I don't find dying because of poor game design to be exciting though. And since I don't like the method I mentioned as a way of circumventing those issues, I just don't play it. That's on me though.	Posted by kan333 on Mar 26, 2015, 2:23:49 PM Quote this Post