Thinking Outside the Box: Rethinking Melee and Ranged skills

Yea derail to the max :)

Well, it's just the way i roll, if i read something that makes me think about something else i might just write that other thing! I wasn't pursuing a vision for poe, but my own vision for a game, and the reasoning that leads to me there.

I wouldn't necessarily agree with you, in fact i think its quite unrelated to ladder. Free trade also equals pay to win situation, so you might lead a more convincing argument that it is worse for any ranking based system.

If you investigate D3 you will see there is no problem for people to catch up with no trade. That is because catching up is only a problem if drop rates are balanced for free trade. I might also have a lower tier of crafted items it will be possible to trade, or to trade crafting resources for.

The goal is the best experience for players. If you want to be number 1 in a season you will want to start at the beginning, else start the next season. That is the true purpose of seasons, that everyone starts fresh relatively frequently, both to remove advantage from those who farmed for months and years, but also to restart that character development progress, the progress that you want to finetune to be optimal for the season.

The itemization and item system of the game will decide how long an upstart period you need in order to be relevant for general gameplay, it is possible to have one where you don't need to farm for weeks before others want to play with you, without being able to top-gear in no time.
I am the light of the morning and the shadow on the wall, I am nothing and I am all.
Last edited by Crackmonster on Mar 29, 2015, 3:26:09 PM
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sidtherat wrote:
all that is needed to fix ranged/melee-ranged disparity is:

leech/lgoh happens at point-blank range ONLY

done. it is impossible to tweak defensive values, it is very dangerous to mess with skills (most of them except few like tornado shot are ok and 'fit well together')

but it is the leech that keeps ranged classes (not only archers/casters) as top-dogs - they get hit rarely, have exact same defenses and due to same (or higher) damage cap can leech better

there is no risk-reward here. without leech (or with leech seriously nerfed for ranged classes) the 'risk' suddenly appears

but this - just like your PoE2-level ideas wont happen


I agree about the leech. When they redid leech they should have incentivized melee skills somehow. Maybe a keystone to buff leech that works like point blank, but for melee only. It's pretty easy to sustain blood rage and cap phys leech which really makes you wonder why you'd want to use claws ever.

Better leech just seems like the easiest most logical way to increase the appeal of melee, its not like they can compete with the aoe of some ranged skills.
Buy the ticket, take the ride.
Last edited by p0t on Mar 29, 2015, 3:04:57 PM
Off Topic, about the free trade thingy

Thing with D3 are the outliers in RNG. If you don't find a item because you have bad luck, well, shit. The set system makes it worse.

I'm in favor of free trade for items, but there are some things that are more questionable, like the times people paid Atziri services in the Sacrifice of the Vaal expansion. That's game breaker, and it should be considered somehow.

And any way to shift the game to a emphasis in playing to become stronger is welcome. There are some that abuse trade right now. I don't like exploits.

Anuhart can be too cynical for me a lot of the time, but he is right when he says that there is a lot of space between free trade and no trade.
Add a Forsaken Masters questline
https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2297942
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Add a Forsaken Masters questline
https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2297942
Last edited by NeroNoah on Mar 29, 2015, 3:19:59 PM
I quite agree, which is why i believe the best game has both, some items bound and others not.

I do not believe in the best items being tradeable however.
I am the light of the morning and the shadow on the wall, I am nothing and I am all.
Last edited by Crackmonster on Mar 29, 2015, 3:43:00 PM
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Crackmonster wrote:
I quite agree, which is why i believe the best game has both, some items bound and others not.

I do not believe in the best items being tradeable however.


+1
https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/417287 - Poutsos Flicker Nuke Shadow
why is it so hard to add a single target melee skill(s) that give more armor/evasion or life.

why is bloodrage in its current state?
why is it not
every melee hit increases max health by 3 % (unlimited stacks of 3 seconds that all have their own timer) but take away the healing portion. and the chaos damage over time that way building tons of leech allows you to become massively tanky and building lower leech allows you to make high attack speed builds?
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agbudar wrote:
why is it so hard to add a single target melee skill(s) that give more armor/evasion or life.
This is what the Endurance Charge on Melee Stun support does. The "stun" makes it perhaps unnecessarily hard, but still.

So imagine you're in GGG's shoes very early in design process of POE. You've just made a temporary damage-reducing buff called an Endurance Charge. The smart thing, it seems, would be to tie this very closely to melee characters.

But no, that's not the GGG way... the GGG way is to do whatever seems like it might be "cool" at the time, then later power-creep past it to make even "cooler" things. So of course there's only the most tenuous link between endurance charges and melee now.

Although really, there never was a link. It was messed up that bad.

Le sigh.

I'm not saying charges are a good mechanic in any form, but they're like a bad design joke in this game.
When Stephen Colbert was killed by HYDRA's Project Insight in 2014, the comedy world lost a hero. Since his life model decoy isn't up to the task, please do not mistake my performance as political discussion. I'm just doing what Steve would have wanted.
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ScrotieMcB wrote:
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agbudar wrote:
why is it so hard to add a single target melee skill(s) that give more armor/evasion or life.
This is what the Endurance Charge on Melee Stun support does. The "stun" makes it perhaps unnecessarily hard, but still.

So imagine you're in GGG's shoes very early in design process of POE. You've just made a temporary damage-reducing buff called an Endurance Charge. The smart thing, it seems, would be to tie this very closely to melee characters.

But no, that's not the GGG way... the GGG way is to do whatever seems like it might be "cool" at the time, then later power-creep past it to make even "cooler" things. So of course there's only the most tenuous link between endurance charges and melee now.

Although really, there never was a link. It was messed up that bad.

Le sigh.

I'm not saying charges are a good mechanic in any form, but they're like a bad design joke in this game.


Add to that the fact that ECoMS cannot grant charges if you also Freeze/Shatter an enemy since you cannot Freeze/Shatter and Stun enemies simultaneously (because reasons).
If you aren't trying to cause as many status ailments as possible..........
Spoiler
you're doing it wrong

ECoMS needs some love.

EDIT: Fortify = Endurance 2.0
Fortify will have stronger synergy with armour so thats exciting (If we don't just forgo armour entirely anyway)
IGN: Victory_Or_Sovngarde
It's not a 13 week development cycle, it's a 13 week supporter-pack cycle.
You can play any build you want, as long as it's the current meta.
Last edited by Ashen_Shugar_IV on Mar 31, 2015, 6:55:53 AM
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agbudar wrote:
why is it so hard to add a single target melee skill(s) that give more armor/evasion or life.


Because melee splash ruined everything.
"Danger is like jello, there's always room for more."
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Last edited by CliveHowlitzer on Mar 31, 2015, 7:53:02 AM

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