GGG is giving up on PvP balance efforts ? ( Recent announcement )

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Awkamess wrote:

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Kaysee wrote:

I don't think the MTG concept GGG has tried for PvP gearing works in an ARPG. It is too exclusive and discourages others from trying out PvP.

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Magic: The Gathering... the idea that players go out, acquire gear (MTG = buy cards, POE = play PvE) and then build their PvP game deck/character from the gear they own.

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Lordsidro wrote:

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Qarl wrote:

Short answer, no, we are not giving up on PVP balance efforts. Nor are we giving up on PVP. Specifically we said "we will continue to support PvP".

If you want more people to play just make it cheaper.... a lot cheaper.

or friendly access to PvE wealth?

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Qarl wrote:

Short answer, no, we are not giving up on PVP balance efforts. Nor are we giving up on PVP. Specifically we said "we will continue to support PvP".

No offense to anyone from the GGG pvp team (i have the outmost respect for you guyz for even giving pvp a night in the spotlight), but GGG team actually gave up on PVP balance effort this season, and the reason behind it while not clear, i still believe its the fact that you are afraid that any kind of balance change might drive away more people than it will actually encourage to play pvp.


I dont actually know if the team is large enough or whatnot, but a good idea would be for you guyz (when not actually make pve content and other important stuff) to actually dublicate some of the characters and just mess around with each other in the office, run some tests, check values on damage, health, armour etc. Like before 1.3 went live.


It has been stated by GGG staff so many times that when something is used by the vast majority of the players its a reason for it to be nerfed. Still i dont see nerfs to traps/cyclone/flicker/blink/mirror arrow/molten shell/triggers.


If someone actually reads carefully he can see and recognize ubiased feedback. Melee players bashing on cyclone and flicker, sword/shield superiority etc, ranged ones bashing on the outrageous damage potential they have, trappers bashing on traps and the advantage they offer etc. In many posts/threads this kind of bashing might be subtle but its still there.

I dont want to name players now, but biased feedback is always made by those who want to defend their broken builds. Sentences like : "FB is actually fine as it is" , or "i kinda like the one-shot mechanics FB build offers" from last season only, or "some builds are entitled to 1-shot mechanics since they are squishy", "traps offer the only way for bows/spells to compete with melee", "desync is not a problem", "molten shell needs a lot of investment to 1-shot", "cws is not broken since its chance based" etc are some of the few memorable things ive heard people saying at the forums or ingame. In short people actually supporting 1-shot mechanics and GGG by neglecting those issues actually contribute to pvp imbalance and continuing degeneration.

The rest of the bad feedback is from new players that usually dont have good gear and the frustration is messing with their head.

I believe that GGG staff (as well as many players) have the maturity, reason and judgemental ability to understand and distinguish between subjective and objective feedback, so the lack of measures this season can only be concieved as giving up on pvp balance.

Solution: Make nearly top tier gear available to all players and simultaneously reduce damage by at least 25% across the board. Everyone likes having good gear, but we need to tune down the damage a lot. Like a lot...

PvP has completely devolved into who 1/2 shots the other guy first. We NEED to move away from that. GGG loves this whole Blitz concept but it's hurtful to PvP at best.

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MullaXul wrote:

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GrindcoreTHRALL wrote:

Its impossible to get an unbiased party. Grab someone who doesnt play poe and ask them for their ignorant opinion? I dont think thats smart. Closest thing to an unbiased opinion would be GGG copying our characters and playing with them secretly. They need to be the ones making the decision for which build deserves to win in which match-up. Any alpha player that LLDs is going to have a subjective outlook when it comes to balancing between builds.

GGG could copy characters and play them. Doesn't change the fact they themselves on many occasions admitted to not knowing what they are doing with them. They may of made the game but they hardly know what they are looking at in PvP.

this

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HegemonyTV wrote:

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MullaXul wrote:

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GrindcoreTHRALL wrote:

Its impossible to get an unbiased party. Grab someone who doesnt play poe and ask them for their ignorant opinion? I dont think thats smart. Closest thing to an unbiased opinion would be GGG copying our characters and playing with them secretly. They need to be the ones making the decision for which build deserves to win in which match-up. Any alpha player that LLDs is going to have a subjective outlook when it comes to balancing between builds.

GGG could copy characters and play them. Doesn't change the fact they themselves on many occasions admitted to not knowing what they are doing with them. They may of made the game but they hardly know what they are looking at in PvP.

this

ummmmm playing the game isnt that hard tbh. If they wanted to learn they could spectate the players from the top skill level of events and public queue. Take the builds and attempt to play them against eachother as well as ask the players to describe the gear swaps. It would take a bit of time but not so much that its impossible. Hardest part of the game is getting competitive level gear. Once you have the build and a general understanding of how to play it, it takes practice. I dont wanna hear this shit like it takes the best of the best to balance pvp because thats wrong. They can definitely gather a general idea of balance through the methods I just spoke of. Once they have it down, they can test the builds vs players and see the difference of their abilities. Spectate the players playing against eachother and then play against the players, record it, and check the differences. If you guys think its too hard for them, then pvp is too hard for the general populous.

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Lordsidro wrote:

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Qarl wrote:

Short answer, no, we are not giving up on PVP balance efforts. Nor are we giving up on PVP. Specifically we said "we will continue to support PvP".

If you want more people to play just make it cheaper.... a lot cheaper.

I agree,I think they should bring back Cast on Death. It was cheap,and brought it TONS of new players,right?

No Comment :)

just please return the blocks nodes as before, it gives everybody chance to stand against the one shoot dmg

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Solution: Make nearly top tier gear available to all players and simultaneously reduce damage by at least 25% across the board. Everyone likes having good gear, but we need to tune down the damage a lot. Like a lot...

PvP has completely devolved into who 1/2 shots the other guy first. We NEED to move away from that. GGG loves this whole Blitz concept but it's hurtful to PvP at best.

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In short people actually supporting 1-shot mechanics and GGG by neglecting those issues actually contribute to pvp imbalance and continuing degeneration.

The thing is if we reduce the damage much further there will be nothing else besides puncture bow characters and viper strikers. Literally nothing else. If we reduce the damage so much people can pot it away with ample life flasks the shit will get super boring. Even if puncture was nerfed by 50% it would still be the best skill in that meta.
I wouldn't want to see that kind of meta instead of the one we have now, where we have lots of all kinds of viable builds.

Id also like to say Im not defending any of my builds. I can just as easily make a puncture bower or viper striker and compete but it just sounds so painfully boring. Have you ever played a tanky bow char with puncture as your only skill? I suggest you try one out and comment again.

Fun fact, there are only a few very specific scenarios where truly one-shotting with a single cast of a skill is actually possible, given that the characters are fully decked. Usually its just the opponent being foolish and running into 2-3 stacked traps.

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Kaysee wrote:

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Awkamess wrote:

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Kaysee wrote:

I don't think the MTG concept GGG has tried for PvP gearing works in an ARPG. It is too exclusive and discourages others from trying out PvP.

???

Magic: The Gathering... the idea that players go out, acquire gear (MTG = buy cards, POE = play PvE) and then build their PvP game deck/character from the gear they own.

I know what MtG is, I play MtG. I don't think that's a good comparison. If you want to compare it to hearthstone, maybe...? Not being able to customize from what you own is a critical part of PoE as a game, and it didn't ruin other PvP games. The problem is the accessibility of the items that you can customize with, not the items themselves.