GGG is giving up on PvP balance efforts ? ( Recent announcement )

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lapiz wrote:

Im actually in awe how LLD is so close to a really good balance. Of the top of my head, I can think of like 5 completely different bis geared builds that can take each other out with no clear favorite. Add all the variations in gem choices to that list and we have a huge number of competitive chars.

Builds beeing able to 1-Shot is not considered balanced in any game anywhere, as usual people write stuff without thinking. Variation to the gem choises? Melee using cyclone and 90% 1h+shield (or fb+shield), casters using molten shell/traps/fp/firestorm and cws, bow users with traps/blink arrows/puncture, WOW, much skill such variety!


Season 2 was just a bit better than season 1 for one and only reason : the lack of FFA events, the mere existance of which made a lot of people really angry the previous season, nothing more nothing less. Balance wise pvp still sucked despite the countless constructive feedback people gave and so we had the following examples : molten shell 1-shoting, kinetic blast 1-shoting, any kind of trap 1 or 2-shoting, elemental melee attacks 1 or 2-shoting, trigger gems 1 or 2-shoting, cws killing any melee any time, 1h+shield builds being the undisputed melee king, bow even after the "nerfs" competing in higher level (and numbers in that case) than before, cyclone the most used melee skill etc etc ( i could go on, but i already wrote UNBIASED stuff like this a million of times http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1204230/page/13#p10148643 )

And its really sad that my previous thread about pvp seems to be prophetic (http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1209402/page/1). Its only logical that GGG in time stops the whole official pvp events and we go back to random pvp matches or events made by the community.

Also i want to speak a bit about HLD, yes its fun (the same as lld), yes HLDers are/were hyped, they are true fans of HLD and they are not going to give up etc etc. But wait until the HLD is the main event and the prices are based on it, then people will start to realise that HLD is honestly at a very worse position than LLD is atm balance wise, and GGG justifiably dont want to start again balancing something that they couldnt manage to do in a much smaller scale, and thats the truth.

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GrindcoreTHRALL wrote:

non bias parties dont exist.

All due respect grind, but thats totally wrong - there have been many unbiased threads and feedback both here and in alpha and you know it.

Its impossible to get an unbiased party. Grab someone who doesnt play poe and ask them for their ignorant opinion? I dont think thats smart. Closest thing to an unbiased opinion would be GGG copying our characters and playing with them secretly. They need to be the ones making the decision for which build deserves to win in which match-up. Any alpha player that LLDs is going to have a subjective outlook when it comes to balancing between builds.

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GrindcoreTHRALL wrote:

Its impossible to get an unbiased party. Grab someone who doesnt play poe and ask them for their ignorant opinion? I dont think thats smart. Closest thing to an unbiased opinion would be GGG copying our characters and playing with them secretly. They need to be the ones making the decision for which build deserves to win in which match-up. Any alpha player that LLDs is going to have a subjective outlook when it comes to balancing between builds.

I have to agree that most pvpers are going to defend op builds if they are using it themselves.

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GrindcoreTHRALL wrote:

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MullaXul wrote:

GGG jay wilsoned PvP here. Diablo 3 suffers from the same neglect. They focused heavily on pvm, wanting giant explosions, million - billion damage crits and other jazz. Never really considered how it'd translate to PvP. Figured fuck it'll we'll leave it be or tackle it later. Well holes too deep and each patch it was dug deeper. Seriously can't balance PvP this far gone. Just need to right the obvious wrongs, the abused specs and do a light evaluation of what's dominating and why...on paper in the numbers, in the options. Not in the player skill because frankly that's a piss poor way to do it. Polish the turd just a bit in the right direction this time and itll have a chance. Get a non bias party who can watch a match and actually understand what they are seeing and determine if its player or spec that's good. Look back 2 years and ask yourselves why bear trap was nerfed but molten shell got better when it already 1shot ppl. Etc etc...etc...

non bias parties dont exist.

I've seen you post many non bias posts since I started playing this game. We all have, some people are totally bias while others see the big picture. There's a handful of people that if you really read their posts you can tell they want an overall better balance even if it neuters their build for it. I know people misconstrue many of my posts for being bias and wanting 2h buffed to god tier status but that's not the case. We need to sit back, pin point whats really really abused and why. Fuck my build, fuck your build, just weigh the pros/cons/options of these given things and why they should or shouldn't be how they are now.

I could sit here and type a wall of examples but I'll only post 1. It really isn't as busted as it seems because its hard countered but it perfectly outlines the idea that somethings do not need to be this powerful because they are almost always paired with a slew of other powerful options.

Example Molten shell's multiple uses in lld and hld. It's great that it provides a meta game where you have to adjust your physical damage to handle it. That sort of thing is great for PvP. The part where it does 1/2 to 100% of your life if you can't properly do this is not. The part where it can be tossed on you as such a powerful melee deterrent while you can still freely move, freely attack with spells (that do top tier damage) plus also be a tank (literally never seen a game where casters are so tanky, its pretty odd). Is a few too many pros and 0 cons. Even if recasting and the duration was considered a con, it does damage instantly on recast...again netting potential 1hit kills to any melee that wanted to seal the deal and kill you when you're down on es/hp. Overall its just a very low maintenance very powerful tool that is a bit overkill given the other options a caster has i.e Cwdt spells,traps,self cast,lightning warp (that can do 1/4-1/2 your life on a crit warping away)+++++.

In lld its used even more widely. By melee,caster,bow users...basically everyone. Its just a great "stay away from me or I'll fuck your ass" skill. Physical to lightning really helped change the game though and honestly Molten shell versus experienced players is pretty much a non issue anymore. So I don't know why I went on about it for so many sentences because stuff like EA and Cwdt in high level are the real problem skills not Molten shell. Molten just struck me as the best example of a skill that is overkill when paired with so many other options ppl would have at the same time. Why it's been left un nerfed this long is beyond me and many others. I know you lld pretty exclusively so you can at least relate to its utility and damage output. The rest is pretty much hld crap that doesn't apply to you but amplifies its utility that much more.

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GrindcoreTHRALL wrote:

Its impossible to get an unbiased party. Grab someone who doesnt play poe and ask them for their ignorant opinion? I dont think thats smart. Closest thing to an unbiased opinion would be GGG copying our characters and playing with them secretly. They need to be the ones making the decision for which build deserves to win in which match-up. Any alpha player that LLDs is going to have a subjective outlook when it comes to balancing between builds.

GGG could copy characters and play them. Doesn't change the fact they themselves on many occasions admitted to not knowing what they are doing with them. They may of made the game but they hardly know what they are looking at in PvP.

Short answer, no, we are not giving up on PVP balance efforts. Nor are we giving up on PVP. Specifically we said "we will continue to support PvP".

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Qarl wrote:

Short answer, no, we are not giving up on PVP balance efforts. Nor are we giving up on PVP. Specifically we said "we will continue to support PvP".

qarl has always been mah boi

Random PVP suggestion time... IMO the biggest barrier is enticing new players into LLD is the cost of gearing. Wealthier players have a gear advantage that outs off casual players from persisting with LLD.

Perhaps GGG should take the lead from another PvP genre... Call of Duty.

- Each PvP character starts off at the same "PvP level", say 1. They have access to the most basic gear and skill gems via NPCs.

- As the PvP character competes against other characters at the same "PvP level" they earn rep to level up.

- As the level up they unlock more gear and gems via the NPCs... until they reach the highest "PvP level".

I don't think the MTG concept GGG has tried for PvP gearing works in an ARPG. It is too exclusive and discourages others from trying out PvP.

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Kaysee wrote:

I don't think the MTG concept GGG has tried for PvP gearing works in an ARPG. It is too exclusive and discourages others from trying out PvP.

???

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Qarl wrote:

Short answer, no, we are not giving up on PVP balance efforts. Nor are we giving up on PVP. Specifically we said "we will continue to support PvP".

If you want more people to play just make it cheaper.... a lot cheaper.