Elemental Proliferation is fine.

In general, if [thing] + spell > [anything else] + spell, then [thing] becomes the primary focus of balance. This weakens the spell when paired with [anything else], to the extend that using [thing] becomes a non-decision.

Shotgunning is that thing for projectile spells (excepting EK). I am mostly in favor of removing shotgunning (as a mechanic*) in its entirety (*it can still be written on specific skill gems), as this would create design space for [anything else], encourage a more healthy single versus multi-target dynamic, and reduce ohko's from multipro mobs.

The latter I attribute as part of the "overtune" defenses vs. ohko dynamic, something which should change (lower the ceiling, raise the floor). Presumably, other ohko's would be looked at as well, and player defenses lowered accordingly.

None of this constitutes a nerf, in particular, but rather a sweeping (and much needed) meta shift. I predict it (and a few unsaid changes) would create design space to introduce more threatening monsters that don't rely on "cheap tricks" to kill players. It's a thing I've been saying since CB, and has since only gotten worse--the floor is too low and the ceiling is too high, such that content is often either too hard, or completely trivial (such as, when you overtune your defenses to compensate for things like multipro mobs), with very little room in-between.

None of this has anything to do with Ele Pro; I'm just saying.. Spell shotgunning influences a lot and changing it could improve the overall health of the game.

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

Prolif turns single-target (and near-single-target) skills into multi-target (or wider-target) skills. As such, it demands a damage penalty.

To be fair it does have a damage penalty, ignite is not your total damage from the source skill. The problem is since the ignite/dot changes it can be scaled so high it becomes a very high portion of total damage so the penalty is ineffective. And the bonus radius is insane.

I'm not saying I'm against getting rid of spell/AoE proj shotgunning, but it would seriously change the balance of the game and nerf a LOT of builds - GGG would have to rebalance monsters in order to make up for this. It would be a big, big change.

Perhaps it would improve the quality of the game, but I don't think it should be prioritized over other, simpler balance changes (other nerf/buff threads have details). Ele prolif seems to be one of them.

I do think a radius nerf or "burn effectiveness" nerf could go a long way towards keeping this skill in check without killing builds that rely on it - hitting half the screen instead of the whole screen for a little less burn damage is probably not a huge game breaker.

Nerfing/Removing shotgunning would not open up "design space." It would further reduce build diversity.

That's all you have to know about it. It's a terrible idea, and an even more terrible argument.

^ Incorrect on all accounts.

^ Incorrect on all accounts.

I seriously don't get you. You're capable of some excellent posts, but lately you're acting little more than a nuisance. What exactly are you contributing with your not-replies?

I have no hopes of GGG actually removing shotgunning, but rather have an idea what the game might have looked like if shotgunning was never the rule from the get-go. And imo, it could have been great (which is not a judgment about what we have now). I proposed what some of those differences might be, and you said literally nothing in reply.

Shotgunning is a major contributor towards PoE's propensity for hanging in the extremes; the game has too many multipliers, and you either stack them, or you don't--and the difference is in degrees of magnitude. Now, either put your big boy pants on or go to bed.

I simply replied to your non-reply with your own words. I already explained earlier that shotgunning is another (legitimate) play style, and it has a place in the game. Your counter-argument was that if a mechanic is pushing out other play styles, it's problematic, but shotgunning isn't doing that. Hence, removing it doesn't help anything, but actually hurts build diversity.

It's not doing that because it is occupying 100% of all design space for "other" play styles. That is, there are no other play styles. There are no FP builds that don't run L/GMP for higher damage (less-less), because the option doesn't exist.

I'm not calling it a problem (but I am calling the extremes involved a problem), merely remarking that it could be different. And if the whole game would be rebalanced without shotgunning in the equation, then yes, it would benefit build diversity because L/GMP would be an actual decision for FP or Incinerate builds. Presumably, both they and content would be rebalanced such that single target were an option.

It doesn't look beneficial to you, because you're ignoring the part where a lot of stuff gets rebalanced in the process.

And again, for clarity's sake, I'm neither calling for nor expecting GGG to change a thing. The game is fine enough as is, but I do think it'd be a lot better if shotgunning weren't a thing.

I think there's a false dichotomy in your argument, and it's a big reason I disagree with it. You don't have to remove shotgunning to make the OHK bullshit monsters do less prevalent (or removed entirely). Similarly, only a few abilities actually are what I would call "abusive" with the mechanic (FP being one of them). Further, you have another false dichotomy in saying that single target damage can't exist while shotgunning is present, because it definitely can--you just focus on skills that can't shotgun (namely, attacks and non-projectile spells).

On another note, games that severely lack ways to play differently, mechanically, tend to be quite boring. This game would definitely lose something to not have that, and it would be a lot more interesting if they sought new mechanics to play with.