Dualwield Crit Groundslam Log

After crunching the numbers, found the upper Shadow region to be really inefficient. Dropping 6th power charge and 20% crit nodes.

Quick respec. Same gear, still level 84.

Tree:
http://www.pathofexile.com/passive-skill-tree/AAAAAgAAA5YEsw3ND6sTzBa_GF0aOBzOJpUnLygqKU8qCyo4K1AxnjH7NI41kjXWNj064TsoPAU8LT0PRQpM_0_zUEdTNVVLYENh4mKsZ5to8mn-a9lsjG1sbj1vnnBScql3B3fjgpuDCYV9hjuHE4tPjAuMNpBVkn2XeZhvmjubWJu1nKSdqp_fogCmV6lurfGuPq9ssbO1SLXytz65fL68wGbDOsT2xq7KSti93CPkIuRR5c_sOOyw7MvtQe8O73zwH_JF8-r0xvcy_gr-VA==

Gear:


Life: 4800

5L:
Damage - 4390
APS - 7.028
Accuracy - .9
Crit Chance with 5 Charges - 54.9%
Crit Multi - 497%
Crit Factor - 3.18

DPS - 88300
Mana Cost - 36

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Added Vaal Haste.

Level 86

DPS: 94,000
Life: 4800
Mana Cost: 30

Level 86

DPS with 5 charges: 98,000. Getting close.
Life: 4800
Armor/Eva: 2350/2350. :( Beginning to regret a little bit not going Marauder/Templar/Shadow and picking up the Evasion wheel. Difficult to say which path is better still, though.

Gear:
Jewelry just keeps changing, mostly because of how difficult it is to balance resists with Coil+Abyssus and no shield.



Tree:
http://www.pathofexile.com/passive-skill-tree/AAAAAgAAA5YEsw3ND6sTzBa_GF0aOBzOJpUnLygqKU8qCyo4K1AxnjH7NI41kjXWNj064TsoPAU8LT0PRQpM_0_zUEdTNVVLYENh4mKsZ5to8mn-a9lsjG1sbj1vnnBScql3B3fjfEuCm4MJhX2GO4cTi0-MC4w2kFWSfZZ0l3mYb5o7m1ibtZyknaqf36IAplepbq3xrj6vbLGztUi18rc-uXy-vMBmwzrE9sauykrYvdwj5CLkUeXP7DjssOzL7UHvDu988B_yRfPq9Mb3Mv4K_lQ=

Level 87.

DPS: 101,233. Finally!

How exactly do you calculate your dps? I haven't checked my tooltip on ground slam yet, but if what you say is true, it's likely to be wrong anyway.

I'm running a somewhat similar build, except it's for cyclone, which means that I use 2 doryani's. Also, my skill tree is very, very different with a duelist start. My current tree looks like this with 211% life. I'm also using a belly, which means I have around 6k life at the moment. On a 6l I get around 105k dps on cyclone with charges.



And my endgame tree looks like this with far less life but way, way, way more dps.



I find that lots of crit with little phys damage in tree makes for low dps overall. Any loss of crit from true strike is more than made up by twin terrors, heartseeker and fencing. You could also start this as a shadow but duelist start gives slightly more phys damage(3%).

Finally, my gear

Regarding the DPS calculations:

Groundslam only uses the main hand to attack. That means the DPS of the second weapon you use when dual-wielding doesn't matter. The tooltip when you dualwield, however, assumes you alternate hands, like with Static Strike. Imagine the following scenarios:

Scenario 1. 300 PDPS rare weapon on your main hand, and a 50 PDPS rare weapon on your offhand. Your tooltip DPS is going to drop severely.

Scenario 2. 300 PDPS rare weapon on your main hand, and a 400 PDPS rare weapon on your offhand. Your tooltip DPS is going to shoot way up.

The actual difference in DPS between the 2 scenarios? Nothing. You aren't hitting with your offhand weapon in either case.

The issue here is that there ARE weapons we can use offhand to boost our DPS. For example, a Doryani's for its ~100% elemental damage. An Ungil's Gauche for its 90% global crit chance and 12% additional block chance. A rare kris for its 80% global crit chance, rolled with mods like crit multi, life leech, resistances, etc. Or a Prismatic Eclipse, as I'm doing. The issue is that these weapons all have very low DPS, and thus bring your tooltip DPS down, when in fact they're buffing your damage.

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That being said, if you're Dual-wielding Groundslam and want to calculate your "true tooltip DPS," it's quite simple. Press C and go to your character tab, under Groundslam. You should have all equipment on.

1. Average Damage per Attack

Take the average of your "Main Hand Total Combined Damage." If it reads 50-100, the value is 75.

2. Attacks per Second

Take your "Main Hand Attack Speed Modifier." Let's say it's +150%. That means you're attacking 50% faster than your base attack speed, so the multiplier is (100%+150%) = 250%. The base attack speed in question is the base attack speed of your main-hand weapon. This is NOT the APS displayed on the weapon. For example, my Doryani's Catalyst has 1.58 APS. The base weapon of a Doryani's Catalyst is a Vaal Sceptre, which has 1.4 APS. Thus, the base APS used in calculations is 1.4. Any attack speed you have on the weapon itself is already put through conversions and included in the "Main Hand Attack Speed Modifier." So, for "+150%" with a Doryani's, we would have 1.4*2.5=3.5 APS. (You will not that this is not the displayed APS - this is because the displayed APS takes into account the APS of your second weapon, which it should not.)

3. Chance to Hit

For this step only, remove your offhand weapon. Take your "Chance to Hit." The reason we remove the Offhand weapon is because the Offhand weapon might, like a Prismatic Eclipse, have an accuracy roll on it. Accuracy rolls on weapons are localized, not global. Let's say I have a 90% chance to hit with only my Doryani's equipped. It may go up to 91% with a Prismatic Eclipse equipped offhand. The true value is 89%.

4. Critical Strike Chance

Pretty simple - what's displayed should be accurate. If you want to calculate your DPS with power charges up, take your chance to crit when you have your power charges up. Let's say we have 50% with charges up.

5. Critical Strike Multiplier

Also simple - it's just the displayed value. Do note that "base" crit multi is 150%, so if you get +10% crit multi on the tree or on an amulet, that gives you +15% crit multiplier. Let's say we have 300% crit multi.

6. Formula

True Tooltip DPS = Average Damage per Attack * Attacks per Second * Accuracy * Crit Factor
Crit Factor = (1+Critical Strike Chance*(Critical Strike Multiplier-1))

If we plug in the numbers we used above:
DPS = 75 * 3.5 * 0.9 * (1+0.5*(3.0-1)) = 236.25 * (1+1.0) = 236.25 * 2 = 472.5 DPS
That's the DPS the tooltip would display if DW Groundslam were calculated without including offhand weapon DPS.

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Pretty long the first time around, but after you crunch it a few times, it takes just a few seconds.

Before I start discussing what you mentioned, I'd like to go ahead and say that I think you're making some valid points, but also that you're missing out on several as well. You have 105k DPS on a 6L. I picked up a low level Cyclone out of my stash, and have 120k DPS Cyclone on a 5L, with my Groundslam tree. So while you had a lot of good points, there are some misunderstandings.

1. Your tree is missing out on a ton of accuracy. Accuracy isn't as important for high-APS builds like ours as they are for some slower builds, but it's important in any crit attack build nonetheless.

2. There is a huge difference between clearspeed and damage. At the damage output that we're both at, things get oneshot. Whites, blues, yellows, uniques, they drop. AOE coverage ends up becoming far more important. You skip out on the templar AOE section entirely, and run Conc Effect without Inc AOE. I choose an AOE gem over Conc Effect, and pick up the AOE nodes over damage nodes. It's a significant drop in damage output per target, yes, but overkilling a monster doesn't make your overall clearspeed any quicker.

My laptop can barely run POE, let alone record, but the build plays out pretty much identically to Skyforth's old Glaciator build. Very different tree and setup, but it's a fast-moving, hard-critting, high-AOE groundslam with very similar DPS. This is what the clearspeed looks like: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-MoQ5lRsco

3. I agree with you on the count that stacking high crit means little if you have low base damage. I don't have low base damage, though. Your 110 point tree has a total equivalent of 360% inc phys damage with 1h maces. If I scale my current tree up to 110 points, I end up with 276%. But I also have 2R Prismatic, which adds another 50% - so 326%. Considering the number of point I invested into things like mana cost reduction, aoe, accuracy, and elemental damage, my base damage isn't very far below yours, if at all.

What I do like about your build is the inclusion of Acro and Phase Acro. I might consider Belly of the Beast as well, though I'm not entirely sold on running Abby without a Coil.

I do remember the glaciator. Very very fast. Even when I do sometimes swap in ground slam, it's very powerful.

I'm currently on phone, but I'm pretty sure that the second endgame tree gets more than 400% crit chance. You are probably comparing with my current tree, which I'm just using for levelling. I also get acrobatics, which is a huge boost.

I need that huge amount of life if I want to level to 93/94, because I play on a potato with very bad internet, so I need to be able to survive random lag and desync.

My accuracy seems fine at the moment with 88% chance to hit. The actual hit chance is of course higher due to the level difference.

Finally, the majority of my clear speed comes from herald of ash proliferation. That's why I use conc effect in place of any other gem. I did a lot of testing with a tabula, and the increased overkill beats increased AoE gem.

You do have a lot of good points. I've tried a lot to somehow efficiently get galvanic hammer, guess I'll have to try harder :D


Btw, what links did you use on cyclone?

"

Etherfire wrote:

I do remember the glaciator. Very very fast. Even when I do sometimes swap in ground slam, it's very powerful.

I'm currently on phone, but I'm pretty sure that the second endgame tree gets more than 400% crit chance. You are probably comparing with my current tree, which I'm just using for levelling. I also get acrobatics, which is a huge boost.

I need that huge amount of life if I want to level to 93/94, because I play on a potato with very bad internet, so I need to be able to survive random lag and desync.

My accuracy seems fine at the moment with 88% chance to hit. The actual hit chance is of course higher due to the level difference.

Finally, the majority of my clear speed comes from herald of ash proliferation. That's why I use conc effect in place of any other gem. I did a lot of testing with a tabula, and the increased overkill beats increased AoE gem.

You do have a lot of good points. I've tried a lot to somehow efficiently get galvanic hammer, guess I'll have to try harder :D


Btw, what links did you use on cyclone?

I was comparing with your second tree's increased phys damage, not crit chance. The difference in crit chance between our builds is negligible - You get 440%, and I get 405%, with an extra Power Charge for 455%. I do get around 25% more crit multi, but overall the crit difference is negligible. If we scale up to our endgame 110 point trees, our damage difference is pretty minor as well.

The main difference between our trees is that I pick up Vaal Pact, Inc Aoe, and Reduced Mana Cost nodes, while you go for Acrobatics.

I didn't realize you were going specifically for HOA prolif - that's pretty interesting. I saw that you had Hatred socketed in your Doryani's as well, instead of Inc AOE, so I figured you weren't specifically going for HOA ignite prolif. I'll have to borrow my friend's Doryani's again and try that. Makes sense why you prioritize phys damage so highly now, though.

On a 5L I was using Cyclone - Conc Effect - WED - Melee Phys - Physical to Lightning. I originally tested with your link setup, but I found I didn't actually need Blood Magic, since my tree has 40-50% reduced mana cost of skills.

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I think, overall, the differences in our trees are pretty beneficial to the specific skills we're using.

1H multistrike Groundslam doesn't do as much damage per hit, so HOA's ignite isn't too large - I think Crit staff Groundslam would work out better. So damage per hit isn't as high a priority for me as it is for you, since you need that large overkill.

You grab Acrobatics and a ton of life early on, since, as you said, you need a lot of survivability on a build like Cyclone, where you're constantly running straight into packs. Alternatively, Groundslam is pseudo-ranged, and gets a lot of safety and coverage out of extending that range via inc AOE.