exp penalty

Khalixxa, don't waste your time arguing. There are a couple of fanboys on this forum who have nothing better but to troll every legitimate suggestion for adding something new or improving the game. A debate with them will lead nowhere. Just ignore them, after all it is the developers you want to see your post, I have no interest in what a fanboy thinks.

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MrTremere wrote:

Natharias, you are missing one of the core aspects of psychology : we are not machines.
From a machine's point of view, indeed, losing a level is better than starting from scratch. From a player's point of view, though, things are much different. When you get sent back to a respawning point further than the one you used prior, you get a whole lot more frustration than from getting back to one that was simply "very far". And if you then get sent back even further, that's probably a point at which you either rage quit or at least ponder doing so.

Funny how you turn around in a 180. Let me remind you of what you said previously:

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MrTremere wrote:

This is where you are wrong. Even if the maths prove that you have a harsher penalty, if it is administered the right way, then it isn't as frustrating.
Let's get back to my mario example. Between systematically getting sent back to level 1 on death and being set back a whole level when you die, which one is going to hit the bin first? The latter, because you feel that you are regressing, despite the first one actually being a harsher penalty.

One moment you say players will react better to starting out at level one, then you come out and say the exact same thing I said, which is the opposite of what you said.

I'm beginning to think you're here to troll, and not discuss.

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MrTremere wrote:

In my case, I uninstalled Path of Exile yesterday evening. Basically, I died three times in the same map, twice being due to screen freezes, and once being my own mistake. Had I not logged in yesterday evening, I would have stayed at a higher amount of experience than what I had at the end of that session. Had a penalty reducing the amount of experience I gain from future monsters been used, I would have been closer to the next level.

And how is that?

Either way there is still a deficit that you need to make up. If you see that you're at 99%, but it's going to take you ten times the effort to get that last 1%, you're going to be just as hurt as being back at 0%. It'll take the same effort either fucking way.

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MrTremere wrote:

It's a shame. Path of Exile is otherwise a great game.

It's a shame that it's now a terrible game, but not due to penalty. Block is useless, Cast on Crit was rightfully nerfed (although there's no cheap options to players besides summoners, which still suck in their own right), and Incinerate is useless without max block.

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Natharias wrote:

Incinerate is useless without max block.

You are sooo wrong on that count. My shadow incinerate build was good pre-patch but now it is just amazing with the revamping of the templar zone (and I have very little block). I can dps and mf at the same time and I have amazingly high clear speed even on lvl77 maps and almost immune to reflect too. Also it does not require expensive gear. I should make a guide about it really.

It does have one downside though, though the build is usually very resilient I tend to stay away from bosses with High Damage spikes and a very high health pool. So I have never tried doing Atziri on my own. It may be able to do it, but I don't want to die and lose xp.

That's Another downside of xp loss is that it encourages boring conservative playing rather than encouraging and rewarding players who take greater challenges.

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mouhanad wrote:

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Natharias wrote:

Incinerate is useless without max block.

You are sooo wrong on that count. My shadow incinerate build was good pre-patch but now it is just amazing with the revamping of the templar zone (and I have very little block). I can dps and mf at the same time and I have amazingly high clear speed even on lvl77 maps and almost immune to reflect too. Also it does not require expensive gear. I should make a guide about it really.

It does have one downside though, though the build is usually very resilient I tend to stay away from bosses with High Damage spikes and a very high health pool. So I have never tried doing Atziri on my own. It may be able to do it, but I don't want to die and lose xp.

That's Another downside of xp loss is that it encourages boring conservative playing rather than encouraging and rewarding players who take greater challenges.

Then let me clarify:

Cheap incinerate is useless without block. Without block, you need things like CoD, knockback, Lightning Coil, and other defensive mechanisms. You also take reflect 100% of the time, and without AA and really high fire resistance, you chew yourself a new one.

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Natharias wrote:

Then let me clarify:

Cheap incinerate is useless without block. Without block, you need things like CoD, knockback, Lightning Coil, and other defensive mechanisms. You also take reflect 100% of the time, and without AA and really high fire resistance, you chew yourself a new one.

My cheap incinerate build is not useless without block. I don't use block and I don't have any of the defense mechanisms you mentioned. I don't use Lightening coil (it would be really nice but I can't afford a 6-Link one). I don't use CoD and Knockback either. I also don't use AA.

I will link my Build guide here once I am done writing it.

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Natharias wrote:

The death penalty is meant to discourage lack of survivability, which leads to death. If your character cannot deal with incoming damage, you are meant to die. The penalty is supposed to force players to get survivability.

So death does not punish death.

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Natharias wrote:

The penalty is not meant to target certain players, playstyles, or anything specifically besides death. There is a reason it is called a "death penalty".

These quotes seem to be contradictory.

Going with the more recent quote: if death serves no purpose other than to initiate a punishment, and that punishment serves to punish death, the purpose of death is tautological.

Things are allowed to be tautological or axiomatic or whatever, but no discussion can be had over their validity.

If the goal of the game is to pick a build you like and make it work (get it to be powerful and effective) then death, in my view, should serve as a conditioning agent for the choices made by players in achieving that goal, like a rock creating turbulence in a river.

If the goal of the game is to "not die" then you win the game by quitting it.

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Khalixxa wrote:

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Natharias wrote:

The death penalty is meant to discourage lack of survivability, which leads to death. If your character cannot deal with incoming damage, you are meant to die. The penalty is supposed to force players to get survivability.

So death does not punish death.

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Natharias wrote:

The penalty is not meant to target certain players, playstyles, or anything specifically besides death. There is a reason it is called a "death penalty".

These quotes seem to be contradictory.

Going with the more recent quote: if death serves no purpose other than to initiate a punishment, and that punishment serves to punish death, the purpose of death is tautological.

Things are allowed to be tautological or axiomatic or whatever, but no discussion can be had over their validity.

And how is it contradictory?

It's saying the same thing.

If you intended them to mean the same thing, then they aren't contradictory, I was just confused.

In the first quote the statement "Death does not punish death" seemed at odds with the second "The penalty [for death] is not meant to target ... anything specifically besides death."