exp penalty

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BINARYGOD wrote:

XP loss and gimped resistances are just lazy.

100% agree and i also find that just dumping more health on a mob or making it one shot you is very lazy as well, but alas this isnt GGG's fault its the gaming worlds as a whole for the most part, AI is a hard thing to work with that is the nature of the beast so most often they take the lazy route and do a rehash of 98% of all the others do and that is gimp the player and say "its hard now" when really its just a matter of getting better RNG rolls and gear then its back to facerolling content...

and a tidbit on the SC/HC thing i used to get irritated at HC guys but really let them have their egos bro ive seen all the top guys alt`f4 or do a log macro or just plain log to avoid a RIP so whateva bros ill jjust be more a man and continue the fight lots of times i stay alive and its just as thrilling, heh even morso than just logging out LOL.

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BINARYGOD wrote:

Why? Why does there even need to be one when the plan is to eventually not have one?

Uh, what?

There's never been a plan to have no penalty for death. If there is, this game has a LOT of changes to become more childish than Diablo III. I don't think any of that is going to happen.

There's always going to be a penalty.

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BINARYGOD wrote:

GGG wants there to eventually be enough acts to get you to level max, or at least end-game content, without needing a new penalty.

No. If I recall correctly, GGG wanted there to be ten acts. But what I am certain about is that GGG does want a penalty for death.

What happens if there's no penalty? The player gets right back up and starts going at the monster again. They'll also use glass cannons to maximize damage output and, thereby, clear speed.

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BINARYGOD wrote:

So why do we need one now? It nothing more than bs, arbitrary difficulty because arpg's in general, and especially PoE, wouldn't know true difficulty (skill based play) if it was pounding them in the rear.

8/10 troll. You had me going.

But, if you aren't trolling:

We need one for the obvious reasons you're oblivious to. If there is no reason to fear death, it eliminates all fear from the game. The player will simply respawn and go fight the monsters again. No need for defenses, survivability, defensive potions, or anything. Everything will be about damage, damage, and more damage.

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BINARYGOD wrote:

I feel about xp loss the same way I do about the gimping of resistance. It's a crutch from a gameplay design pov.

"The gimping of resistance"? What are you talking about?

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BINARYGOD wrote:

EDIT - Or I am wrong and later acts will have death penalties... except that would be rather odd. People could just grind lower acts to avoid it.

Uh, no. That's like saying you can grind out experience from Normal instead of Merciless. Yes, technically you do get experience. But you get so much less that it requires time investment that no player will ever have.

Not only do lower level monsters give less base experience, your character's level will affect the amount you actually get. So a level 80 character farming a level 20 area would be getting such little experience he'd get more from one level 80 monster than hundreds of thousands of level 20s.

If you played MMOs or ARPGs you'd understand this.

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lagwin1980 wrote:

Hmmm...no, you have no character listed that would take more than a few hours hard grind to make back the EXP.

except you have to double that because I already got the exp now I have to get it again...

lol never gonna happen! I'd say GGG is very kind to have nerfed the xp penalty a bit on a previous patch...for the new players.

My suggestion would be penalized the whole xp level(100%)...and even that would get you below the actual level you are (being like 81.5% would go 80.5%). of course would be a cap of 60lvl in merciless - 50lvl in cruel and 30lvl in normal.


Here is an HC arpg.. if you dont like it hard, you can play other friendly-noob-enviroment arpgs :)

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BINARYGOD:
I have played hardcore - but game issues (desync, poor mob design or rng restrictions) and the lack of real perma-death ruin the experience.

dsync? poor mob design? and rng restrictions? really? these prevents you from playing hc?

and the lack of real perma-death ruin the experience...

and how you feel for the real perma-remove from the HC league when you die?

The questions we have to answer are the following:

1. What is the purpose of the current penalty for death?

2. How effectively does the current penalty serve that purpose?

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Khalixxa wrote:

The questions we have to answer are the following:
1. What is the purpose of the current penalty for death?

The purpose is to avoid situations like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Ohk5Swy-04
It's not really interesting to "block the boss with the wall of your 50 dead characters".
And there would be no interest to play because you know that you won't lose anything.

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Khalixxa wrote:

2. How effectively does the current penalty serve that purpose?

Extremely effective.
Those who can't play with the penalty simply leave the game, and it's good.
Other players adapt, which is also good.

In response to HarukaTeno.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but your stated reason seems to be "To prevent players from death zerging bosses." That is, players running in and dying over and over again until the boss finally gets whittled away, even though they probably don't have the gear to face the boss in the first place.

Here are two simple reasons why the current XP death penalty is completely ineffective at serving this purpose:

-The first is that players can circumvent the penalty by finishing out their level. Since they cannot de-level, there is no penalty whatsoever for a player at 0% level XP death zerging a boss.

-The second is that the hardest bosses in the game are within maps where players are limited to entering six times. Death zerging, even without any XP death penalty at all, would be ineffective.

While I agree that the XP penalty does at least "touch" on the purpose you've given, I'd say that it is horribly ineffective at it, and is more likely on the other hand to get players to avoid challenges, grind constantly and/or learn to ALT-F4 regularly.

Funny, I never really thought Standard had any real penalties... (But I play hardcore.)

A penalty for death makes one care about their life, and have something on the line. It makes the game exciting, and a boss threatening...

Haku missions were 100x scarier and funnier when playing Hardcore... (OMG, is this going to kill me?) Similar for corrupted zone bosses.


If you don't care about your defenses, and don't plan for your defenses properly, expect to die. Having to plan for solid defenses and fun offenses poses a real challenge. ( This includes being able to survive for 5 seconds should you computer freeze up, because that damn overclocked graphics card gives you trouble.)

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Khalixxa wrote:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but your stated reason seems to be "To prevent players from death zerging bosses." That is, players running in and dying over and over again until the boss finally gets whittled away, even though they probably don't have the gear to face the boss in the first place.

Here are two simple reasons why the current XP death penalty is completely ineffective at serving this purpose:

-The first is that players can circumvent the penalty by finishing out their level. Since they cannot de-level, there is no penalty whatsoever for a player at 0% level XP death zerging a boss.

-The second is that the hardest bosses in the game are within maps where players are limited to entering six times. Death zerging, even without any XP death penalty at all, would be ineffective.

Not always. The best way to finish out your level is by clearing content at your level. Since the only "high" level content we have are maps, which have bosses, they cannot simply finish off their level.

So they are not just limited by portals, but in how many maps this can be done.

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Khalixxa wrote:

While I agree that the XP penalty does at least "touch" on the purpose you've given, I'd say that it is horribly ineffective at it, and is more likely on the other hand to get players to avoid challenges, grind constantly and/or learn to ALT-F4 regularly.

I will agree a flat experience loss is a bad penalty, it is currently the only one that will work. Other common penalties include:

1. Timed penalty. Regardless of what this penalty does, all the player needs to do is wait out the timer. If the timer is too long, it deters players more than a flat experience loss. If the timer is too short, players only leave to refill their drink and come back as if nothing happened except a bathroom break. There's no sweet spot between.

2. Paid penalty. This penalty is either timed or permanent, but the player has the option to pay to remove it. This hurts all players except those who are rich or have a method of acquiring currency easier than others. This deters new players like poison to insects and has little effect on players who can easily pay.

3. Entry penalty. The player is unable to rejoin the instance. This deters all players, especially those who spend less time or have a harder time with the game. This is because the player died to something like desync, lag, disconnection, or other problems that they could not avoid. These penalties are almost never used simply due to the fact that the game uses internet.

4. Permanent-death. This is similar to entry penalty but worse. Losing the entire character is a huge blow to the character, and this is generally only used on specific game modes within a game so that players who do not want this do not have to suffer it. Hardcore gamers enjoy this and play this without much issue all the time.

5. No penalty. The players only get enough survivability to hang on by a thread. This further increases the min/maxing done by top players to maximize clear speed. Players only fear losing their spot and having to run all the way back.

6. And finally the flat penalty. This costs the player something and automatically takes it, and if there is nothing to take it takes as much as it can. This is just how Diablo 1 and 2 did experience and gold, but enhanced the quality of the gold within the player's stash since it only penalized gold on the character.

And that's all of them.

Don't make this game into another D3 please.

As much as I hate losing exp that way, I hate the zerg rush mentality in D3 where death in there is nothing more than a handful of gold coins.