[2.0] The WayneTrain© #1 CoC Discharge - Million DPS whole Screen Destroyer - Deathless Uber

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sensig177 wrote:

I just read this :

Spoiler

How good are Vagan's daggers for CoC ?

Started doing the math below as a reply to a buried comment on an unrelated thread. The conclusions were interesting to me, so I thought someone might find it of interest too.

So, how do "hits cannot be evaded" Vagan daggers fare compared to regular daggers ? I will be comparing a Poignard from Vagan ("low tier ambusher", highest AS/crit base available at ilvl59) against a regular Ambusher.

With a Vagan dagger, the resulting attack speed and crit chance are a lot lower than what you would get from a perfect Ambusher, especially considering Poignards have lower base crit than Ambushers (6.5 vs 6.68, for some reason I can't fathom). However, 100% hit chance tremendously improves your actual crit rate, and also frees up multiple passive points and gear affixes that you would otherwise need to spend on accuracy. There's also the neat advantage of being immune to blind. OTOH, you're getting lower max rolls on spell damage and spell crit. All that influence on build making is pretty hard to quantify, but what you can look at is how low your chance to hit would need to be for a Vagan dagger to be better than a perfect Ambusher on the same character, everything else being equal (looking only at the resulting effective crit rate).

Perfect Ambusher : 9.2% CC, 2.03 APS -> .187 "crits/second" (simple product of the two. Doesn't take anything else into account at this point, especially not chance to hit)

Perfect crafted Vagan Poignard : 6.5+34%(t2)=8.77% CC, 1.6+22%(t3)=1.95 APS -> .171 "crits/second"

Average master crafter Vagan Poignard : 6.5+24.5%= 8.09% CC, 1.6+13.5%=1.82 APS -> .147 "crits/second"

Factoring in chance to hit : "effective crit rate" = "crits/second" * "chance to hit"2 , therefore "chance to hit"=sqrt("effective crit rate"/"crits/second")

perfect Vagan dagger vs perfect Ambusher : sqrt(.147/.187)=.956 -> you would need over 95.6% chance to hit for a perfect Ambusher to be better than a perfect Vagan dagger. Such high accuracy is literally impossible, making the Vagan dagger strictly better. (thanks /u/the_tes for pointing out the cap I forgot about)

average master-crafted Vagan dagger vs perfect Ambusher : sqrt(.171/.187)=.887 -> you would need over 88.7% chance to hit for a perfect Ambusher to be better than an average master-crafted Vagan dagger. That's a chance to hit value you need serious investment in accuracy to reach.

For reference, I have a CoC char at lvl90, 2200 total accuracy, on which my character sheet says 89% chance to hit. It takes me 3 passive points (depth perception, not counting the bonus acc I get from swift precision) and acc rolls on both rings and on gloves (t1/t2/t2) to get there. I could just throw all that out the window, spend the points somewhere else and get resists/IAS/whatever on gloves and rings instead, use my mediocre master-crafted Vagan dagger instead of my 9.15/2.02 Ambusher, and effectively get the same crit rate.

Edit : bonus number : a perfect Vagan dagger has a 26.5% better effective crit rate than a perfect Ambusher at 85% chance to hit (and an average master crafted one 8.8% better).

What do you think about it ?

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reefdreams wrote:

Now that the praise is done... Wayne I was wondering what you would prioritize first. The insane GG dagger or a 6 link voll?

Also for the 6th link I was thinking ARC or Added chaos damage could be pretty powerfull now that crit multi is nerfed. Do you think so?

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reefdreams wrote:

I must say I'm surprised that 6L (70 more crit multi) would be more desriable than that dagger. I guess its more of a bang for the buck consideration?

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BullitD3 wrote:

You got 35k with GMP and Chain, a real Wander got 140k+, can reach 160k+... If my discharge could fart, the fart had more dps then your build man.

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Amaterasus wrote:

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BullitD3 wrote:

You got 35k with GMP and Chain, a real Wander got 140k+, can reach 160k+... If my discharge could fart, the fart had more dps then your build man.

Made my day.

Also stop arguing who is more awesome. We don't need anymore [Removed by Support] crying about forum posts, we already have enough!