~ Does the Bow Damage nodes affect Puncture?
" they have actually changed it to work like this in 1.0.2 (aka DoT patch). And it is neither a secret nor detail. Every burn build is being made around this mechanics.. And that you dont know about it? well, PoE has complex mechanics, and you either spend time on research/learning/theorycrafting or not IGN: Eric_Lindros
CET: Timezone | |
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Thank you for pointing out that the change was in 1.0.2, Ludvator. I was unaware of this.
I don't think that this particular detail can safely hide behind the guise of "complex mechanics". It is not that complex that Puncture benefits twice from general phys nodes or that certain Fire attacks/spells may benefit twice from general fire nodes, it is obscured and unintuitive. One needs special, hidden knowledge to know that this double dipping occurs. Who would expect that Puncture's Bleed is basically interpreted as a separate attack/spell that gets its own buffs from general physical damage nodes? TY to those who called me out on my BS on these forums. There is no benefit to being so selfish as to fail to acknowledge others' differing beliefs of what "should be" or believe your own opinions so supreme as to be factual and thus dismiss others' opinions as being somehow a lie or delusional. Last edited by Perfect_Black on Nov 3, 2014, 12:22:58 AM
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" the thing is that the initial hit and DoT are two different base damage types. Generic damage modifiers (physical, projectile, AoE, fire, elemental, trap, etc) can affect all four mutually exclusive base damage types (attack, spell, DoT, secondary). burn and puncture bleed are based on damage from initial hits. these hits come from base types that can hit (attack, spell, secondary). Now the initial damage is affected by applicable DoT modifiers.. this results in: attack/spell mods: only initial hit DoT mods: only DoT applicable generic modifiers: both initial hit and DoT similar when mitigating bleed damage: Armor: only initial hit (because Armor mitigation requires a hit) end charges and Immortall call: both initial hit and DoT another example is fire resist, which logically also affects both initial hit and burn edit: I think that one of the reasons behind general phys damage passives introduction in FM patch was to boost puncture. Especially for melee chars who unlike ranged (projectile, trap damage) did not have many ways to increase both initial and bleed damage (only AoE mods when linked to melee splash, 2 generic phys passives, rustic sash and Oak cruel reward) IGN: Eric_Lindros CET: Timezone Last edited by Ludvator on Nov 2, 2014, 5:11:17 PM
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Thank you for further clarification/information. I still don't think that general damage nodes double dipping on Puncture's DOT damage makes sound sense.
I don't know why this little detail bothers me so much, but it really does. Puncture's Bleed is a part of Puncture, not a separate attack/spell, and it should be treated as such. To boost the Bleed you should have to boost the initial hit or the DOT directly; you should not be able to boost both directly through general damage nodes. General double dip nodes are stupid. Sorry Qarl! Edit: Honestly, these general damage nodes are like mini-exploits created on purpose to manipulate flavor of the month/season effects; this is my interpretation at least. If this detail wasn't specifically written in the patch notes, I would assume that it was a bug. TY to those who called me out on my BS on these forums. There is no benefit to being so selfish as to fail to acknowledge others' differing beliefs of what "should be" or believe your own opinions so supreme as to be factual and thus dismiss others' opinions as being somehow a lie or delusional. Last edited by Perfect_Black on Nov 3, 2014, 12:32:41 AM
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Why can't you just accept that there are certain nodes (damage nodes) that are more powerful for certain builds to get? If you play a puncture build, you get all the general damage nodes you can, and after that you can fill the rest out with the less powerful nodes like DOT if you so choose.
Come on, it's not like DOT is OP or anything so what's the problem? I am far more angered by the MASSIVE preferential treatment that low life, dagger, and critical strike get on the skill tree. They should definitely address all of those at some point. But to care this much about DOT, seems a little silly... | |
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either way, this is how devs decided they want it to work. They may change it again or not. There are changes in every big patch and we are supposed to adapt
I also think that it is not too OP to be nerfed, but thats just my opinion. btw, I guess crit bow/dagger "issue" is going to be addressed in next big patch (rivers of tears incoming:)) IGN: Eric_Lindros
CET: Timezone | |
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it can double dip
IGN: Pumar, Pumam , PumarR , PumaPunch , PumaWander , PumaCleave, PumaSlams
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Dot's were fucking garbage that patch made it amazing thankfully.
Dys an sohm
Rohs an kyn Sahl djahs afah Mah morn narr |
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Puncture hits the target for weapon damage. It then applies a Damage over Time debuff to the target. These are separate things.
It's not "double dipping", it's two separate instances of single dipping. There are two instances of damage being dealt, and each is affected by a separate set of modifiers. There is some overlap in those modifiers, because some of the modifiers are global. Physical Bow Attack damage is Physical Damage - so the base damage value is affected by increases to physical damage, and the final damage is mitigated by physical damage mitigation. Physical Damage over Time is Physical Damage - so the base damage value is affected by increases to physical damage, and the final damage is mitigated by physical damage mitigation. This is consistent with everything else in the game, and changing it would either make it inconsistent, or change those things so that they didn't make sense. Should increased chaos damage not apply to Poison Arrow's cloud because it's chaos damage over time? If you have added chaos damage supporting the gem, should that increased chaos damage then only apply to the hit damage, and not the cloud? Should Ignite not be affected by Fire damage increases? Despite the fact it will be affected by fire resistance? Puncture isn't going to get arbitrary special treatment to make it work unlike all the similar things in the game - that would be inconsistent and confusing. The current system makes sense and has all damage of a type be affected by modifiers to that type of damage. Last edited by Mark_GGG on Nov 2, 2014, 10:32:15 PM
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" Wait, what? How does Added chaos impact PA's DoT? Its damage is not based off of the arrow's damage, that'd be like added lightning working with Searing Bond. I thought the DoT is impacted by chaos damage %, DoT %, AoE % and global % (ie traps), but nothing flat. My builds: https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1641740
My 6link collection: https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1656425 |
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