The conflicting Design of PoE (a long detailed read, my final feedback(for now))

"

tmaciak wrote:

For me it's a stupid mechanics, to force ppl to pile MF if they want to drop a shit.

These games have to aim for getting chars killed (or their 'hardcore attitude' would be fully gone) - so they HAVE to try to lure the players into risks; MF equipment is one of the (not so many) options they have for this.
And: to avoid (most of) supidity, these games have 'diminishing returns' especially on parameters like magicfind: the more you stack, the less effective is it.

If you remove all "unneccessary", "useless", "stupid" parameters on equip, you'll end up like D3 - strength rules all ^^

"

tmaciak wrote:

"

majesw wrote:

I’d be very interested to know how often you are dropping legendaries in D3 RoS… I drop 1-2 an hour. In PoE I drop 1-2 uniques an hour.

Or you are extremely lucky in PoE or extremely unlucky in RoS or rather both.

In PoE, I drop unique (not some low level vendor trash or skin item) once per few weeks. I drop some vendor trash brown items once per few sessions. Good example is, that playing since end of CB and having numerous 80+ lvl characters 2 days ago I looted my first ever LG. Lowest roll possible unfortunately and it's still the best DPS wise bow I ever looted here.

I will spare you details, how much legendaries you can have per hour if you have character able to do rift T6 at leisure or 33+ lvl grift in 10 minutes.

I play virtually only standard, mostly self found without selling anything, and in this time, all accumulated, worth to use end-game items I could store in no more than 10 stash tabs, and nothing godly, though some quite nice. And it's what probably OP refers to. We are showered in piles of crap.

BTW IMO "Murdering" economeh was the best Blizz decision related to D3.

I'll preface this post with admitting that I haven't attempted any G-rifts since I've been playing here since that RoS patch. Perhaps things have changed. However, it is unfair to discount PoE's drops as vendor trash while saying nothing about the fact that you are salvaging every drop you get in D3...

That's still not really my problem with D3.
The issues with D3 begin with the lack of character customization and end somewhere near the fact that there's nothing worth picking up other than legendaries...

I've averaged about 2-3 hours a day in Rampage league and I have 142 unique items in my stash. This is not counting the 10-20 that I have sold...

I have no idea what Blizzard's statistics are on RoS, but I have a group of about 40-50 players who all began playing Vanilla together. I think three of us purchased RoS, and the main reason most didn't was "no trading"... Many people can do without it, but for a lot of us trading and collecting is the end-game of an ARPG...

"

majesw wrote:

somewhere near the fact that there's nothing worth picking up other than legendaries...

So what? I don't quite understand this obsession, that item has to be yellow to be interesting. Anyway, it's just different itemization, like it or not. There is no unique items in D3, legendaries are highest level magic items with special abilities.

Regarding what is worth pick up in D3... you know, last week I specifically farmed for blue items... as I run out of crafting materials. And I pick up every yellow item, for gold or for materials.

"

tmaciak wrote:

"

Haderach99 wrote:

It is foolish not to make an MF character and then complain about lack of loot.

For me it's a stupid mechanics, to force ppl to pile MF if they want to drop a shit. And I will not sheepishly follow mechanics, I don't like or I don't find fun in. Running MF character is boring, I had such ones in past, but grown up from builds like this.

And my post was in fact not complain, it was just statement how I see comparison between PoE and D3 RoS in loot area. And it's part of basis I base my own decision, which game I find more fun to play so play and support more.

Jesus christ. If D3 is more fun to play for you, stop playing PoE and play D3. The last frigging thing I want is PoE to become D3.

And to the other part about MF. You chose to omit the fact that D3 has built in automatic MF, mostly because every kid complained about drops. So you are comparing two different mechanics.

PoE has a choice of going going MF on one of your characters to find rare loot. If you choose not to do it or are too lazy (seems the latter), then your complaining about your experience with your terrible drop rate in PoE is invalid. This is like the lazy unemployed bums who complain about not having enough money, but are too lazy to actually go out and find a job. The solution is there and you choose to ignore. Instead of actually doing the most efficient thing to get loot, you choose to not do it then complain when the results dont' match your unrealistic expectations.

You want to fundamentally change PoE entire frigging system to match D3. NO NO NO NO NO.

If you like D3 systems so much, why aren't you playing that? You are just another whiner who wants everything the way you want it and even EASIER loot grind. You want everything and you want it now.

"

tmaciak wrote:

So what? I don't quite understand this obsession, that item has to be yellow to be interesting. Anyway, it's just different itemization, like it or not. There is no unique items in D3, legendaries are highest level magic items with special abilities.

Regarding what is worth pick up in D3... you know, last week I specifically farmed for blue items... as I run out of crafting materials. And I pick up every yellow item, for gold or for materials.

I need a little more depth to my games I guess. Some days I don't mind just slogging through monsters waiting for a beam of light. Others I need a little more engagement. At least I still look at rares in PoE :-/

didnt read, too long and unimportant

but if you dont like how the game is atm play another game for example ds 2, gothic 2 + notr, risen 1 ...

"

Mr_Cee wrote:

"

tmaciak wrote:

For me it's a stupid mechanics, to force ppl to pile MF if they want to drop a shit.

These games have to aim for getting chars killed (or their 'hardcore attitude' would be fully gone) - so they HAVE to try to lure the players into risks; MF equipment is one of the (not so many) options they have for this.
And: to avoid (most of) supidity, these games have 'diminishing returns' especially on parameters like magicfind: the more you stack, the less effective is it.

If you remove all "unneccessary", "useless", "stupid" parameters on equip, you'll end up like D3 - strength rules all ^^

Which works as a limiter for some builds in some content, some builds in all content and not at all for specific builds made to exploit it. It also comes with numerous ways to byass even those limits (party cullers) that offer nothing but benefit to the entire party and penalizes any solo player. It also detracts from the risk/reward stuff because quite often it is far better to farm faceroll stuff with mf gear then to attempt to clear content you can barely survive fully geared.


Overall, doesn't seem to accomplish any of the goals of risk/reward as far as I can see but rather is one that benefits you to exploit as early and as often as you can.

Its a matter of general balance, and its obviously impossible to make it 'perfect'. There have to be differences between classes and builds (or they would just be boring cosmetic), and this will always mean there are different stages of efficiency - thats a fact and not an issue. (and wasnt different back in D2 times; teleport rules...)
I wont call maxing out intended behaviour as 'exploiting' (but may be seemed so in some extreme situations), and unintended 'holes' have to (and were; resp. will) be fixed (done with the adjustment of quantity, etc)

We've seen, that its nearly (if ever) impossible to make party really balanced as (close to) equal to solo - yes thats a bigger issue, but not really an exploit, IMHO. Partying will always be more efficient (and less risky to some degree), no matter what they'll do here.

If one wont follow the given pathes of efficiency, why complain? Same like: Its clearly stated, that the most efficient route to 'richness' is simply trading; as I dont like the effort it demands in its actual state, I have to deal with the (non-incoming) ^^ result.

Or, less metabolic examples: on a fresh start, you either need a gear independent build, or some basic stuff to proceed. Do so or do harder. As a new player, look for a solid, basic build to gain playing experience first - do so or do hard.

Its each owns decision to set realistic expectations; to select your goals from this; and to choose the efficiency "level" to reach it.

Its GGG's task to make sure not everything is equal - and just from this there will never be a perfect balance.

"

Haderach99 wrote:

If you like D3 systems so much, why aren't you playing that? You are just another whiner who wants everything the way you want it and even EASIER loot grind. You want everything and you want it now.

I play both games and here I play mostly self found (even if I buy smth, I buy paying only with self looted currency).

Considering this, I'm as far from "You want everything and you want it now." attitude as possible.

But, I would say, it's quite typical here to attack those complaining on shitty drops, while caressing nice little shop and doing mindless Dom grind on MF character. Because noting that it would be nice to re-balance drops for joy of self loot is "shortcut" and "whiners attitude" while trading and RMTing is sooo hardcore and not shortcut at all.

"

CanHasPants wrote:

I really cannot understand the acceptance of the cyclic meta as we have it. It wouldn't be as much of an issue if it weren't, well, an upheaval every patch rotation. The design intention as I've encountered it, has been power creepy new things, and break a few old things. Thats not to say they haven't nerfed many thing well, because they have. But it is fairly transparent that there is little concern for long term stability, and I do not understand how you suddenly find that acceptable.

On some levels, I find the apparent apathy towards long term planning and development to be offensive; particularly when the alternative seems so forced, and it needn't be. Again, it wouldn't be such a problem if the shifts slowed down, and didn't invite so much upheaval.

Pretty much.

It's GGG logic, though.

D2 ladders were and are loved. D2 ladders were a result of a broken game.

To recapture the magic of D2 ladders in PoE, GGG logic says they must break the game, regularly.

@Crack, conflicting designs and contradictions run deep though PoE, it's truly fascinating once you really look into it. I could write down a great list, but I can't be arsed and I've said it all before.

I'd actually suggest to anyone to look at the old dev diaries and even the links at the bottom of the forum under 'Game'. What stands out to me, repeatedly, is that play styles they actively try to prevent and quite obviously detest, fit almost perfect to how they say they want the game to be experienced, while play styles they push and reward do the opposite.