The conflicting Design of PoE (a long detailed read, my final feedback(for now))

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1988288 wrote:

So from what I understand you're just saying "Make this game Diablo 3 2.0". No thank you.

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Haderach99 wrote:

For people like the OP, the absolute possible best items in every slot must be acquired for it to be finished for him.

Guys, how can you misunderstand the OPs post so comletely? His example with the Shavronne's showed very clearly that he does not want GG items to drop more often. He wants more good items to drop. And preferably those which enable specific builds so he can play more different chars. So he does suggest higher drop rates of the GG uniques, but with mostly low stats. The GG uniques with high stats can drop equally seldomly as now.

Please take a bit more care to understand the OP before dismissing him so casually. I think he has some good points to make, if you can overlook the aggressive style in his answers.

Summary:

Player A has expectations.
Game B doesn't meet those expectations.
Player A quits playing Game B.

All hell breaks loose.

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treffnix wrote:

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1988288 wrote:

So from what I understand you're just saying "Make this game Diablo 3 2.0". No thank you.

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Haderach99 wrote:

For people like the OP, the absolute possible best items in every slot must be acquired for it to be finished for him.

Guys, how can you misunderstand the OPs post so comletely? His example with the Shavronne's showed very clearly that he does not want GG items to drop more often. He wants more good items to drop. And preferably those which enable specific builds so he can play more different chars. So he does suggest higher drop rates of the GG uniques, but with mostly low stats. The GG uniques with high stats can drop equally seldomly as now.

Please take a bit more care to understand the OP before dismissing him so casually. I think he has some good points to make, if you can overlook the aggressive style in his answers.

And you misunderstood what the previous 3 posters were saying so take your own advice about reading comprehension.

You missed the basic message that people's expectations vary greatly.

The OP EXPECTS to be able to acquire every piece of gear he may desire, including the example he gave which was a Shav, an item that I myself probably wont' ever even touch. And you know what? IT DOESN'T BOTHER ME. Apparently it bothers him.

The type of items that drop is fine for average players who want to experience a variety of builds. An average player still has access to hundreds of different builds and specs. But the entitled people want everything so they want the extremely rare items that only a few people can get. The outside perception of these people are petulant kids who cry about not getting what they want.

His points are he wants more items to drop more frequently so he can have more toys to play with. Pretty much this guy wants nothing to be rare. He wants everything to be readily available to everyone at anytime with much less time investment. I don't agree with that philosophy in PoE for many reasons.

Hey I have an idea. You stop defending people with no new thoughts other than a veiled insult that we can't read. We were disagreeing with many things the OP were saying and giving reasons, and you basically came out and said our opinion is wrong. /facepalm

I will reiterate once again my main point. This kind of person the OP is will never be satisfied. He didn't get what he wanted in drops during his play time and he thinks that sucks. We think that doesn't because we all got full enjoyment out of the game without have all the GG and rare items.

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majesw wrote:

I’d be very interested to know how often you are dropping legendaries in D3 RoS… I drop 1-2 an hour. In PoE I drop 1-2 uniques an hour.

Or you are extremely lucky in PoE or extremely unlucky in RoS or rather both.

In PoE, I drop unique (not some low level vendor trash or skin item) once per few weeks. I drop some vendor trash brown items once per few sessions. Good example is, that playing since end of CB and having numerous 80+ lvl characters 2 days ago I looted my first ever LG. Lowest roll possible unfortunately and it's still the best DPS wise bow I ever looted here.

I will spare you details, how much legendaries you can have per hour if you have character able to do rift T6 at leisure or 33+ lvl grift in 10 minutes.

I play virtually only standard, mostly self found without selling anything, and in this time, all accumulated, worth to use end-game items I could store in no more than 10 stash tabs, and nothing godly, though some quite nice. And it's what probably OP refers to. We are showered in piles of crap.

BTW IMO "Murdering" economeh was the best Blizz decision related to D3.

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tmaciak wrote:

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majesw wrote:

I’d be very interested to know how often you are dropping legendaries in D3 RoS… I drop 1-2 an hour. In PoE I drop 1-2 uniques an hour.

Or you are extremely lucky in PoE or extremely unlucky in RoS or rather both.

In PoE, I drop unique (not some low level vendor trash or skin item) once per few weeks. I drop some vendor trash brown items once per few sessions. Good example is, that playing since end of CB and having numerous 80+ lvl characters 2 days ago I looted my first ever LG. Lowest roll possible unfortunately and it's still the best DPS wise bow I ever looted here.

I will spare you details, how much legendaries you can have per hour if you have character able to do rift T6 at leisure or 33+ lvl grift in 10 minutes.

I play virtually only standard, mostly self found without selling anything, and in this time, all accumulated, worth to use end-game items I could store in no more than 10 stash tabs, and nothing godly, though some quite nice. And it's what probably OP refers to. We are showered in piles of crap.

BTW IMO "Murdering" economeh was the best Blizz decision related to D3.

If loot is you main worry, make an MF character. It is foolish not to make an MF character and then complain about lack of loot. Look at General with a guy logging his MF run on his extremely cheap summoner and getting piles of uniques (abeit none fantastic but at least he gets a chance).

And if your response is "I shouldn't have to MF to get drops" then really have no respect for you for complaining when it is so easy to get greater loot drops.

And comparing this to D3 is absolutely ridiculous. You get free MF in D3. Now run PoE with MF gear. Ya..that's right.

I miss old times ARPGs, where you cannot go full capitalist and earn everything from the work of other people.

Without trading, ever, it should be possible to get endgame gear within a reasonable amount of time.
That is why I play games:
I get enough of "how the world really works" from real world work, politics and wars.

That's why I prefer and love RPGs like Baldur's Gate II and the likes, the kind nobody makes any more, because everything is supposed to be multiplayer.
And when there's multiplayer, you've got to add the worst parts of the world into the game:
Doing stuff yourself < Having other people do stuff for you for a profit --> Someone other than the developers earn real money from the game, and those people will have real world interests in making everyone pay for content...
and they ruin my experience.

I don't want "gear checks" to limit my progress.

Castlevania: Harmony of Despair is probably one of the best ARPGs that exist, lack of story aside, one of the problems being a tad too horrible drop rates for endgame gear.
You can learn where every item in the game can drop from, and you can target drops.
You can clear the game with SKILL -- damned plain old skill -- with absolutely no defense what so ever.
Or rather; I can't. Because I'm not skilled enough.
But when something else than skill limits my progress, such as "lack of grinding", I lose interest in RPGs pretty damn fast.
Grinding requiring skill, however, can be fine.
Farming Mephisto did require *some* skill: Most of my characters could DIE from one single Ice Orb.
Heck -- Diablo's lightning hose required most characters to escape it for a very long time before they slowly began to be able to stand inside it.

Diablo 3 failed massively here, forcing the grind from bosses -- which can be challenging -- over to elites which are generic in nature because they cannot be designed to be incredibly hard to kill without hindering normal characters from progressing past them...

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If I ever had a point:
Path of Exile is trying to stretch current content too far, instead of 'simply' letting the content be until the next content expansion.
Masters didn't really add content, as much as it altered current content.
What they could give was already there, hidden behind a winning lottery ticket and now... they're making the masters endgame potential less accessible, more comparable to getting a paycheck at the end of a month of work.
Win the lottery, or work for a month and collect your paycheck.
Killing the dragon, doing a heroic feat for glory, for a great reward -- is tossed out of the window.

I would believe adding new quests to existing acts, endgame quests that requires a completion of Act 3 to activate, would be better -- preparing us for act 4.

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Red_Frostraven wrote:

...because everything is supposed to be multiplayer.
...and they ruin my experience.

nice said, sad but (close to) true. Its not so much a general 'first world issue', than the holy shit of 'social' features and behaviour everywhere. All thats done, serves to the false god of player interaction - but that doesnt improve anything for everyone (fitting balance implied)

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Red_Frostraven wrote:

I don't want "gear checks" to limit my progress.

They are neccessary, but shouldnt be a skyscraping wall but doable more realistically, say for slightly upper average chars in the most situations. Having some more extreme gating at optional missions or before the very end seems fine to me - but not like the CWDT reward, 30+ levels (~100%) above it could be used and still 15 levels above from when you start needing it...

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Red_Frostraven wrote:

If I ever had a point:
...Masters didn't really add content, as much as it altered current content.

indeed. instead of adding content, it added more frustration about blindfold "balance", crude (not scaling) reputation reward grind and even more highlevel gating.
The amount of missions needed for level 7 and even more 8 is ridiculous; the fact that you need them at 8 to retake their crafting is ridiculous too (and even more since each only can do this for his own mods, so its not "enough" to have ONE maxed just for this task). Some of their prices are just a joke; and they should offer the increased hideouts at level 5 and 7 at least, IMHO.

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Red_Frostraven wrote:

I would believe adding new quests to existing acts, endgame quests that requires a completion of Act 3 to activate, would be better -- preparing us for act 4.

Not that easy, this would demand a splitting of the 'storyline' - even more (and irritationg) than 'between' Piety and Dominuns... and it would cause trouble with the scaling (levelwise) of the content in general.

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Haderach99 wrote:

It is foolish not to make an MF character and then complain about lack of loot.

For me it's a stupid mechanics, to force ppl to pile MF if they want to drop a shit. And I will not sheepishly follow mechanics, I don't like or I don't find fun in. Running MF character is boring, I had such ones in past, but grown up from builds like this.

And my post was in fact not complain, it was just statement how I see comparison between PoE and D3 RoS in loot area. And it's part of basis I base my own decision, which game I find more fun to play so play and support more.

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Odoakar wrote:

Also, balancing a game around people who play 20h per day (your words), is just fucking stupid. But you got one point there, that's exactly the problem with this game. The advent of streamers and GGGs willlingess to balance the whole game around them and their 12-18h per day is just plain stupid.

Harumph, I said many many eons ago, that we 'casuals' who work, able to buy supporter packs are the ones paying the salaries of GGG, yet we simply get ignored.

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Charanjaydemyr wrote:

In fact, I'd go so far as to say that part of why so few CBers are still here is this loss of reliability in the game's integrity from upheaval to upheaval.

Want to know how I am still around?