Forced To Play Classes I Dont Like To Avoid Reflect

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Septile wrote:

Reflect needs to exist.

If it didn't, glass cannon builds would dominate every league as they would be the best way of leveling fast and staying alive with nothing being able to stay alive long enough to hit you. Glass cannon builds are already way better at bosses than tankier builds, so glass cannon is safer due to shorter encounters, encounters that usually involve big hitters. That is their advantage over tanky builds, tanky builds get the advantage of not dying to reflect. If you don't want to die, then make a build where not dying is the primary concern. Otherwise, deal with it.

Wait.
WHAT?

A mechanic that INSTANTLY DESTROYS a character that already IS EASY TO KILL is necessary?

How about..:

Enemies with 85% chance to dodge projectiles
HEAVILY armored enemies with 85% damage reduction
BIG FAST enemies with HIGH HEALTH and medium block chance

instead of..:
Enemies with Trololol-physical damage (from outside the screen, behind a wall)

Nevermind that reflect damage on bow attacks doesn't make sense.
That's God Level magic right there, able to not only identify the source of the projectile that was shot out of the ball that shot out arrows in all directions, but also know which bow that initial arrow was loosed from, AND who held that bow at that time.

That powerful magic, involving omniscience and omnipotence (A magical effect able to deal infinite amounts of damage without any support, that is able to identify the source of a physical projectile outside sight, behind a wall, and identify the archer when the projectile actually hits?), would ONLY have been found on Godess Fate and her chosen in my worlds -- except auras or curses, only working on melee attacks, and reflect effects that actually reflect the projectile back towards where it came from

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kasub wrote:

Indeed. That's why you want quite high evasion and shouldn't exceed 90% accuracy. I personally popped a jade flask and did fine last league. This was at high gear levels with 800% crit multi so I'm sure others with far less DPS can do fine.

Alternative thing was echo + EC and had a high level immortal call go off after around 2k damage(linked to high level cwdt). That allowed doing reflect maps even(which are 18% compared to the typical 14% reflect pack). That also proved to be a very successful method even with a drillneck build that did far worse against reflect than chain alternatives.

That worked at 35k tooltip(50k+ when playing with my friend).

An alternate solution is to run with roughly 65% hit chance and utilize "projectile weakness".

You will be fucked vs curse immune mobs and maps do.

But in return, you have a 95% hitrate and only 65% vs your own reflect.

But i am sure, the op never considered routes like this, it doesn't seem "in his nature" to do so.

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Red_Frostraven wrote:

Wait.
WHAT?

A mechanic that INSTANTLY DESTROYS a character that already IS EASY TO KILL is necessary?

Read what he types word for word.

Glass canons don't get easily killed if played correctly, since everything will die before they can land a hit.

Don't pull stuff out of context, it doesn't serve your argument, either false or right.

Peace,

-Boem-

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Boem wrote:

An alternate solution is to run with roughly 65% hit chance and utilize "projectile weakness".

You will be fucked vs curse immune mobs and maps do.

But in return, you have a 95% hitrate and only 65% vs your own reflect.

Are you suggesting to run at 65% hit chance against mobs, or 65% hit chance against yourself?

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Boem wrote:

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kasub wrote:

Indeed. That's why you want quite high evasion and shouldn't exceed 90% accuracy. I personally popped a jade flask and did fine last league. This was at high gear levels with 800% crit multi so I'm sure others with far less DPS can do fine.

Alternative thing was echo + EC and had a high level immortal call go off after around 2k damage(linked to high level cwdt). That allowed doing reflect maps even(which are 18% compared to the typical 14% reflect pack). That also proved to be a very successful method even with a drillneck build that did far worse against reflect than chain alternatives.

That worked at 35k tooltip(50k+ when playing with my friend).

An alternate solution is to run with roughly 65% hit chance and utilize "projectile weakness".

You will be fucked vs curse immune mobs and maps do.

But in return, you have a 95% hitrate and only 65% vs your own reflect.

But i am sure, the op never considered routes like this, it doesn't seem "in his nature" to do so.

Way to completely miss the point. Oh, sure, you don't get hosed by reflect. Now enjoy getting hosed by curse immunity!

How about a solution that doesn't involve playing like a coward and taking 4x as long to clear a map because of one mod (whatever that mod may be)?

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Are you suggesting to run at 65% hit chance against mobs, or 65% hit chance against yourself?

65% hit chance vs mobs combined with projectile weakness which gives projectiles another 30% chance to hit if i am not mistaken?

This would allow you to "rig" your effective hit-rate to 95% while it would assume 65% when dealing with reflect.

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Way to completely miss the point. Oh, sure, you don't get hosed by reflect. Now enjoy getting hosed by curse immunity!

How about a solution that doesn't involve playing like a coward and taking 4x as long to clear a map because of one mod (whatever that mod may be)?

Wut?

Peace,

-Boem-

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Boem wrote:

"

Are you suggesting to run at 65% hit chance against mobs, or 65% hit chance against yourself?

65% hit chance vs mobs combined with projectile weakness which gives projectiles another 30% chance to hit if i am not mistaken?

This would allow you to "rig" your effective hit-rate to 95% while it would assume 65% when dealing with reflect.

Projectile weakness no longer increases chance to hit, as far as I can tell. It used to, but not anymore since they introduced Poacher's mark.

Poacher's mark, however, at least reduces target evasion rating, up to around half.

Poacher's mark also adds life on hit to your attacks, which helps against reflect if you're running something like split arrow + chain, that does a lot of hits.

I don't know if you can even tank your chance to hit to 65% against mobs running a dex-based character -- you just get too much dex and accuracy+other stuff notables.

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Septile wrote:

Reflect needs to exist.

If it didn't, glass cannon builds would dominate every league as they would be the best way of leveling fast and staying alive with nothing being able to stay alive long enough to hit you. Glass cannon builds are already way better at bosses than tankier builds, so glass cannon is safer due to shorter encounters, encounters that usually involve big hitters. That is their advantage over tanky builds, tanky builds get the advantage of not dying to reflect. If you don't want to die, then make a build where not dying is the primary concern. Otherwise, deal with it.

+1

Id like to add, along these lines, that CB is a legitimate counter to builds that stack "too much" ias imo.

Boem has posted multiple different strategies that deal with reflect. Let me just say if you are dying to reflect you are either being inefficient with your setup, or you are not preparing adequately

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IlyaK1986 wrote:

How about a solution that doesn't involve playing like a coward and taking 4x as long to clear a map because of one mod (whatever that mod may be)?

That's the point! There should not be a build that can faceroll every single monster. They've built in monsters that are a hard check on your ability so that you must have some alternate way to deal with. Corrupting Blood and Lightning Thorns are the check against attack speed. Reflect is a check against unbalanced offense/defense. Reduced/no regen maps are a check against Righteous Fire and Arctic Armour builds. Blood magic maps are a check against CI builds. If there were no reflect monsters, 99% of the people would make glass cannon builds. You'd be way behind everybody else if you didn't because the raw clear speed would allow people to faceroll everything with nothing to fear.