There is a problem with armor.

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Mahesys wrote:

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Autocthon wrote:

If you're taking 2500 after damage reduction you've got about 20% reduction from the initial hitv (which had to be on the order ov 3500-4k) + whatever you have for endurance charges. Give or take 5%. Like I said napkin math rounded to work out.

Which is not a whole lot of DR compared to what you can gain on endurance charges.

What i'm saying is: a 2000+ hit is not remotely common in high maps. Those big hits come from heavy physical hitting mobs like bears, golems, devourers or charging roah and soldiers. A 2000+ hit it's usually performed by savage/deadly blues or rares

Endurance charges in a non stadard quantity (3 charges = std quantity) could help greatly against big hits, but not as much for low and mid hits where armor already shines and suffices. The combination of both high armor and standard endurance charges it's imo the best way to mitigate physical damage overall

What I'm saying is that armor value drops precipitously as damage increases, while evasion stays essentially stable.

Against big threatening hits armour, in the common range, and evasion provide roughly the same DR. Effectively none outside of ECharges. While evasion has the upside of non-trivial evade rating (whether or not you include blind).

Sure against smaller enemies armour has an advantage in terms of damage taken per hit, but against smaller enemies they both have large amounts of effective mitigation and small enemies don't matter. What matters is how long it takes an actually threatening enemy to kill you.

I have never liked armor either. All my build I try to use a lightning coil with over 80% light res feels tankier when hit and you get to partake of evasion too unlike with IR which most armor user grab. I think Armor is a noob trap. My first build a RoA ranger I made it armor IR and die a lot.

Ultimate phys defense is LC + AA + MOM. I did this on a EK shadow no hit could bother me.

To give you idea how bad armor is:

Say Map Vaal hits for 8000

20,000 Armor user STILL takes like 6640 damage since dam reduction is only 17% @ that lvl of hit/armor

LC user with only 75% res takes 5600. (not including any armor bonus he may have)

Just lightning Coil by itself with measly 75% res is better than 20,000 armor.

If he run MoM too (assuming high enough mana pool) he takes 3300 damage

If he run AA too he take 3111 dam

6640 vs 3111.

Yeah armor sucks.

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Boem wrote:

The reason why IR is the top node is not because of the node, but because of the lack of sufficient gear.

Just saying, i thought this was logic...

Peace,

-Boem-

(lot's of stuff in this thread seems flawed from my perspective, but i will leave it at that, currently doing cyclone evasion melee build and going trallalalalaa in 100% maps and i did double jungle valley boss/labyrinth all that fun stuff)

Hard to believe that is the case - armor on gear is just as available as evasion on gear, if not more. In fact, if that is the case then evasion users should be complaining about the lack of evasion on gear.

The reason they take IR is because they can easily boost their armor defense to high levels by combining - Jade + Granite flask, Grace, etc. While an evasion user cannot.

If you meant to say the ease of gearing is better with IR because you can use hybrid pieces then that is true, but it is not because of "lack of sufficient gear". Still that doesn't explain why it has consistently been the #1 most popular node on the entire tree.

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Ceryneian wrote:

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Boem wrote:

The reason why IR is the top node is not because of the node, but because of the lack of sufficient gear.

Just saying, i thought this was logic...

Peace,

-Boem-

(lot's of stuff in this thread seems flawed from my perspective, but i will leave it at that, currently doing cyclone evasion melee build and going trallalalalaa in 100% maps and i did double jungle valley boss/labyrinth all that fun stuff)

Hard to believe that is the case - armor on gear is just as available as evasion on gear, if not more. In fact, if that is the case then evasion users should be complaining about the lack of evasion on gear.

The reason they take IR is because they can easily boost their armor defense to high levels by combining - Jade + Granite flask, Grace, etc. While an evasion user cannot.

If you meant to say the ease of gearing is better with IR because you can use hybrid pieces then that is true, but it is not because of "lack of sufficient gear". Still that doesn't explain why it has consistently been the #1 most popular node on the entire tree.

The short explanation is it's hyped up and recommended.

New players find armour safer than evasion. Older players who pay attention to gear while leveling will find armour safer than evasion.

And of course. Grace. Grace makes armour so much better than it otherwise would be. Without grace armour's leveling curve is trash in ways I cannot describe.

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Ceryneian wrote:

The reason they take IR is because they can easily boost their armor defense to high levels by combining - Jade + Granite flask, Grace, etc. While an evasion user cannot.

Da fak?

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Kaemonarch wrote:

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Ceryneian wrote:

The reason they take IR is because they can easily boost their armor defense to high levels by combining - Jade + Granite flask, Grace, etc. While an evasion user cannot.

Da fak?

Ev is limited to using Jade+Grace but does not have the more multiplier of Determination or the raw additional bonus of Granite. And of course an Ev user is going to gain significantly less total toughness change from stacking multiple sources of Ev bonus because of that.

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Kaemonarch wrote:

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Ceryneian wrote:

The reason they take IR is because they can easily boost their armor defense to high levels by combining - Jade + Granite flask, Grace, etc. While an evasion user cannot.

Da fak?

A build that includes Iron Reflexes is not an Evasion build. It just gives you another route to obtain Armour.

umh, well...

i think that having big phys reduction is useful only if you deal phys dmg, to ignore reflect.

big phys slam are designed to kill, better stay away from them :v

personally i think that eva alone is worthless, if you add dodge, you're half the way.

eva+dodge+block is fairly good, but if you're in the wrong place at the wrong time, you'll end up dead.

phys reduction is good but not against insta-kill spells.

so imho, dodge+block + mitigation of phys through LC or MoM + life/es regen is the best solution.