There is a problem with armor.

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Starxsword wrote:

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However for evasion, once in a rare occasion you will encounter instances whereby the attacks all happen to hit because of bad luck. That is no big deal as that still will not kill you.

Could you elaborate on this? I don't think this is possible. There can't be any instances where all attacks happen to hit because of bad luck.

Thats true, evasion is entropic, you wont get hit like 10 times in a row.

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"There is a problem with armor"

All the top HC players beg to differ with you, armor is fine as it is.

Do you actually mean armor through armor items and nodes or do you mean IR double flask abuse with ridiculous high Eva/hybrid OR do you mean enduring cry ic builds? Which is fine?

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JahIthBer89 wrote:

Except that evasion actually does suck when you're getting swarmed. You're getting stunned, you're taking full damage, you aren't ignoring evangelists the way armor does. Yes, evasion can usually out-leech/regen that damage, but sometimes it doesn't. Sometimes evasion just gets destroyed in seconds from shit that armor would laugh at.

They both have their place. Armor is still very good in a lot of situations.

If you're getting stunned consistently as an evasion build you've done something very very wrong. If a swarm is an issue on any build you have, once again, done something very very wrong.

If you are any weaker as evasion than an equivalent armour build you have done something very very wrong.

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Spysong192 wrote:

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"There is a problem with armor"

All the top HC players beg to differ with you, armor is fine as it is.

Do you actually mean armor through armor items and nodes or do you mean IR double flask abuse with ridiculous high Eva/hybrid OR do you mean enduring cry ic builds? Which is fine?

I can speak for last invasion league in which i was a melee armor based character (still alive lvl90). I had 15k basic armor with grace + IR + 120% armor and it was enough to never get hit for more than 1.5k or 2k hp from level 76 deadly charging bone rohas or deadly devourers (the hardest hitting ones imo). I think that the worst hit i took was from colonnade kole for 2.5k physical damage, not more.

15k armor paired with high hp (5k) and some block was already enough for me to melee in 75+ maps. The thing with armor is: you must invest in it, having 15k armor it's the base amount to sustain the vast majority of physical hits in high maps. Having 20k or more basic it's the ideal

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Mahesys wrote:

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Spysong192 wrote:

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"There is a problem with armor"

All the top HC players beg to differ with you, armor is fine as it is.

Do you actually mean armor through armor items and nodes or do you mean IR double flask abuse with ridiculous high Eva/hybrid OR do you mean enduring cry ic builds? Which is fine?

I can speak for last invasion league in which i was a melee armor based character (still alive lvl90). I had 15k basic armor with grace + IR + 120% armor and it was enough to never get hit for more than 1.5k or 2k hp from level 76 deadly charging bone rohas or deadly devourers (the hardest hitting ones imo). I think that the worst hit i took was from colonnade kole for 2.5k physical damage, not more.

15k armor paired with high hp (5k) and some block was already enough for me to melee in 75+ maps. The thing with armor is: you must invest in it, having 15k armor it's the base amount to sustain the vast majority of physical hits in high maps. Having 20k or more basic it's the ideal

Number of endurance charges?

from 0 to 3, depending on enduring cry with CWDT

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Mahesys wrote:

from 0 to 3, depending on enduring cry with CWDT

Your armor is sporting roughly 20% damage reduction against those hits if you have a real 15000. Maybe a little more depending on non-crits and such, but realistically it's not providing that much damage reduction.

Napkin math ftw

3 Endurance charges provide 12% DR against physical. If you're consistently at 0 charges (I'd guess you're consistently around 2-3 tbh) you gain nearly as much DR just by getting the charges on a 0 Armour build as you have baseline. It's nothing spectacular.

I just spam ICall.

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VictorDoom wrote:

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JahIthBer89 wrote:

But it also makes you a god versus a ton of weaker hits, which are a problem for say.... Evasion.

All defenses have their strengths and weaknesses. That's the point.

err thats the thing, a lot of weaker hits are not a problem for evasion, cause you lose like 300 life every 10 hits, you just regen/leech that shit back, evasion is weak against heavy hitting stuff that can one shot you if you dont evade it.

There aren't hits that one-shot evasion-chars. Well maybe Touch of God or Vaal Smash, but why should you get hit by them. And all of those hits kill any other char in two hits even if they would oneshot an evasion char and it is less likely that the evasion-char is hit once compared to the other chars getting hit twice.

So nope, Evasion is powerful against big hits, incredble powerful exspecially since you are very unlikely to get critically hit. It sucks against lots of small enemies, exspecially Flicker-Stuff. If you actually compare the red to the green side of the tree evasion is also a lot weaker against degeneration-effects due to having lower access to regeneration and life.

If you utilize endurance-charges you can basically become immune to physical damage with armor. A char with 5 Endurance-Charges and 20.000 Armor can ignore any damage below 417. With 7 Endurance-Charges and 25.000 Armor you can ignore any damage below 811. This means that a lot of damage can be completly evaded. And with the addition of adds to more and more fights armor gets more useful. Yes Armor does not help much against Brutus main attack, but the thorns and the huge amounts of skeletons can both be almost completly ignored. While for evasion-chars the introduction of more and more things using Cyclone, which is one the fast-hitting attacks evasion is particularly weak against and the still existing weakness against unavoidable physical spells (like any rocks falling from the ceiling) keep evasion in line.

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Emphasy wrote:

If you actually compare the red to the green side of the tree evasion is also a lot weaker against degeneration-effects due to having lower access to regeneration and life.

Regeneration, yes. With life, there's not much difference now. The Marauder start used to be the place to go for life, but since then, life nodes in the red zone have been progressively nerfed, which is one reason why Marauder/Templar starts are much less popular than they used to be. Meanwhile the Ranger area has a decent life total, and you also get some nice bonuses while stacking life, such as a ton of Evasion and a big boost to life flasks from Herbalism. The main difference is the big life wheel, but that's not too hard to reach from the Dex side.