How are players with default stash tabs supposed to complete "Own these unique items" challenge?

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SlixSC wrote:

Right, but I was using 4 tabs and leveled to 89. Sure it is more restrictive, slightly annoying and takes more effort. But what do you realistically expect?

*snipped for cleanliness*

GGG isn't a charity and like I said the only thing I can blame them for is that they are still pretending to be by calling their microtransactions "ethical". There isn't a moral dimension to micro-transactions, period.

So you're basically agreeing that stash tabs impact gameplay. That was the only point I was trying to get across. The fact that review sites and GGG themselves keep on advertising that PoE's MTX aren't P2W is what bothers me, as it's a half-truth.

Another way to look at = if stash tabs aren't P2W, they probably wouldn't be GGG's best-selling MTX. But they are. There's obviously a strong connection between convenience and gameplay advantage that pushes so many people to buy stash tabs.

Like I said, I have 29 premium tabs, so I have no problem supporting GGG with $$$.

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rrtson wrote:

"

SlixSC wrote:

Right, but I was using 4 tabs and leveled to 89. Sure it is more restrictive, slightly annoying and takes more effort. But what do you realistically expect?

*snipped for cleanliness*

GGG isn't a charity and like I said the only thing I can blame them for is that they are still pretending to be by calling their microtransactions "ethical". There isn't a moral dimension to micro-transactions, period.

So you're basically agreeing that stash tabs impact gameplay. That was the only point I was trying to get across. The fact that review sites and GGG themselves keep on advertising that their MTX aren't P2W is what bothers me, as it's a half-truth.

Another way to look at = if stash tabs aren't P2W, they probably wouldn't be GGG's best-selling MTX. But they are. There's obviously a strong connection between convenience and gameplay advantage that pushes so many people to buy stash tabs.

Like I said, I have 29 premium tabs, so I have no problem supporting GGG with $$$.

Well yes, I agree with you to the extent that GGG is overstating their case by claiming that mtx have no impact on gameplay. Of course stash tabs do.

But you can work around it. If you can't afford to pay for stash tabs, you can create alts/mules, etc..

Yes it is more restrictive, slightly more annoying and time-consuming but I see no other alternative to this.

I don't think people should get more stash tabs for free or that stash tabs should be less expensive. It's GGG's main source of income (I guess).

I usually have alot of sympathy for egalitarianism, but I don't think we can apply it here. Some people just won't be able to pay for extra stash tabs, it's tough shit, GGG need to make money and can't just go "full-charity".

4 stash tabs are already alot, 24 character slots is extremely charitable (compared to pretty much ANY other ARPG)

F2P model is basically a cash cow , there is a reason why legit one time purchase or subscription titles turns to this model. No entity can survive without gains. ( Obviously ,brace for wall of text :)

Kuddos to ggg for implementing it in least intrusive manner and making a real profit out of it.Everyone gets it that they are earning .But op has fair point and stash pages does influence game play still it would be wrong to call it p2w. To all the supporters with 1k banners and such ,i get that this is really great game and you guys earn in american dollars or equivalent and can afford to show your support. But support has its wrong perks you can ignore the point but cant deny it. Real donators are the one who gives away thousands just so the game they are passionate about survives.But pouring 100's just for storage upgrade doesn't justify f2p ( or maybe it does )


Players who cant afford to throw away 100$ exists and they feel frustrated for the lack of feature. And before asking a person to get a job or giving real life economy lesson please justify your expenses in this free game which was specifically used just to upgrade storage .

If you take away the perk of stash space from donation packs the scene would be completely different. Visual upgrades or tweaks is not the same as stash page . A free player will never enjoy this game as his counter part but then again its the f2p bussiness model . The stash page model makes it forced support instead of voluntery one. The fact that ggg graciously rewards their supporter gets mixed up with stash situation.

This is a global game and there is almost always uproars among gamers when price tag is set to 60$ and pounds or euros for same title . GGG is pretty much doing same not everyone lives in america or eu.

In the end its a great free game which i love and will support how much ever i can ( you invest in what you like ) but stash tab thing is an issue that needs to be addressed.

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nubmoj wrote:

In the end its a great free game which i love and will support how much ever i can ( you invest in what you like ) but stash tab thing is an issue that needs to be addressed.

No, it doesn't need to be addressed.

Sure you can take the egalitarian stance that we all are entitled to the same (or a similar) level of enjoyment no matter how much we actually paid. But that simply wouldn't be a viable business model for GGG.

I think this game would be in a significantly worse state if stash tab sales weren't as profitable as they are now.

I see no way for GGG to change this situation.


The only thing they could possibly do would be to bite the bullet and just say "alright, most mtx are purely cosmetic effects, but stash tabs do have an impact on gameplay." They should just drop this "ethical mtx" nonsense so nobody can actually complain about stash tabs. (And I'll say it again, I support their decision to sell stash tabs, it's a great source of income and they aren't particularly expensive)

I think the only reason why people think there is a moral dimension to this is because GGG keep refering to mtx as "ethical".

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SlixSC wrote:

Well yes, I agree with you to the extent that GGG is overstating their case by claiming that mtx have no impact on gameplay. Of course stash tabs do.

But you can work around it. If you can't afford to pay for stash tabs, you can create alts/mules, etc..

Yes it is more restrictive, slightly more annoying and time-consuming but I see no other alternative to this.

I don't think people should get more stash tabs for free or that stash tabs should be less expensive. It's GGG's main source of income (I guess).

I usually have alot of sympathy for egalitarianism, but I don't think we can apply it here. Some people just won't be able to pay for extra stash tabs, it's tough shit, GGG need to make money and can't just go "full-charity".

4 stash tabs are already alot, 24 character slots is extremely charitable (compared to pretty much ANY other ARPG)

Well I think this leads us to a really interesting discussion, as it highlights which microtransactions "work" and which microtransactions don't really work. Could GGG support themselves on 100% cosmetic MTX? If the answer is "no", then why not? Isn't that the entire concept behind a non-P2W business model?

Doesn't that mean if GGG relies on paid-stash-tabs to supplement their income, then 100% cosmetic MTX can be considered an unsustainable business model? Furthermore, what does the popularity of stash tab MTX say about the players themselves? It seems like many players are quite willing to pay $$$ for in-game advantages.

"

rrtson wrote:

"

SlixSC wrote:

Well yes, I agree with you to the extent that GGG is overstating their case by claiming that mtx have no impact on gameplay. Of course stash tabs do.

But you can work around it. If you can't afford to pay for stash tabs, you can create alts/mules, etc..

Yes it is more restrictive, slightly more annoying and time-consuming but I see no other alternative to this.

I don't think people should get more stash tabs for free or that stash tabs should be less expensive. It's GGG's main source of income (I guess).

I usually have alot of sympathy for egalitarianism, but I don't think we can apply it here. Some people just won't be able to pay for extra stash tabs, it's tough shit, GGG need to make money and can't just go "full-charity".

4 stash tabs are already alot, 24 character slots is extremely charitable (compared to pretty much ANY other ARPG)

Well I think this leads us to a really interesting discussion, as it highlights which microtransactions "work" and which microtransactions don't really work. Could GGG support themselves on 100% cosmetic MTX? If the answer is "no", then why not? Isn't that the entire concept behind a non-P2W business model?

Doesn't that mean if GGG relies on paid-stash-tabs to supplement their income, then 100% cosmetic MTX can be considered an unsustainable business model? I just think that GGG should be honest about their practices.

Only GGG knows the answer to that question.

I agree that this is an interesting discussion, but I don't think we have any room to speculate about this. It would definitely be really interesting to know though.

Let's look at it this way:

If purchasing stash tabs for $$$ offers convenience by saving a player time, and isn't considered P2W, then by the same logic... what prevents the player from going to a RMT site and directly purchasing a Kaom's Heart? In both cases, you are exchanging $$$ for time (convenience).

After all, the "worth" of an item is directly tied to the time it took to find it. If a Kaom's Heart takes roughly 1000 hours on average to find, then you are essentially paying the person a "finder fee" for their time.

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Shagsbeard wrote:

Create a second account and mule the items there until the end of the league, and then transfer them back.

lel, thread was answered in the first post, I am sure it was already covered in 7 pages but the reason that you have to keep all the uniques for the challenge to apply is obvious.

If it wasnt set up in this way your friend who completed the challenge could trade all the uniques to you for free and you could get the challenge done with no effort. It would be theoretically possible to complete this challenge on all characters in the league with a single set of uniques if that were the case.

"

rrtson wrote:

Let's look at it this way:

If purchasing stash tabs for $$$ offers convenience by saving a player time, and isn't considered P2W, then by the same logic... what prevents the player from going to a RMT site and directly purchasing a Kaom's Heart? In both cases, you are exchanging $$$ for time (convenience).

After all, the "worth" of an item is directly tied to the time it took to find it. If a Kaom's Heart takes roughly 1000 hours on average to find, then you are essentially paying the person a "finder fee" for their time.

Well yes, in a way extra stash tabs do offer a gameplay advantage, we can both agree on that.

But again, I leveled to 89 on my alt with just 4 stash tabs and mules. 100% free to play.

Yes, more restrictive, slightly more annoying and time-consuming, but you pay absolutely nothing.

GGG's stance on stash tabs has always been that a player who doesn't want to pay can use alt accounts/mule characters to work around the issue. Yes, the tabs are the closest thing in this game to P2W, but in this day and age it's pretty much as ethical as it gets.