Trade Hate: Which one takes more skill?
" Then just play on existing leagues :|. Seems to me that people want SFL in 2 ways: 1) Buffed drops, crafting etc. = D3 2) Unchanged, with removed trading = play existing leagues. That is all. Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance.
Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge. | |
" I want to be able to see how I am competing against other self found players(not that I play SFL at the moment, because if I do its impossible to keep up) This is what you just do not seem to understand. Some of us both want SFL AND ladders that we can use to judge how we are going. You trade only supporters seem to think that wanting SFL means you dont want ladders, or something.. IGN
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" Thanks for pointing out even more so how wrong he was. I'm not frustrated with wealth accumulation. Trading is annoying and slow sometimes but if you have the currency its not hard at all ITS EASY. I have nearly everything I have ever wanted in this game, how did I do it? By trading of course. Drops are boring and crafting takes a huge back seat to trading. I can't stop laughing at this idea some of you have that trading takes skill and therefore its fine to have this whole game centered on it. I shed a tear for the dungeon crawling genre that it has come to this. If someone wants to play Path of Exile and acquire what it has to offer what do you tell people? Do a lot of grinding? Kill a lot of epic monsters? Craft really cool gear? No not at all, TRADE and FLIP. All that cool stuff you want to find, just forget about finding it, that would probably take 5 thousand hours of play time. You need to focus on trading. This game is super tradecore. Standard Forever
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" This doesn't even make sense. WTF is that supposed to mean? Edit: You are talking about smart loot right? Man, for someone that doesn't play D3 your writings aren't readable. No one needs "smart loot" tailored to your classe here btw., it was never a topic as far as i'm aware of. "No. Path of Exile is not Diablo 3, and it will never be. Those games have a different core experience. Diablo 3 is boring as soon as you are not progressing in gear because of a very shallow design. I'm talking about Art, Character building.. where is that in D3? It's a cartoony farce, take away the item progression and you are left with tom and jerry. fucking quit trying to shut down topics by pointing at Diablo 3. if this was the solution for anyone you certainly wouldn't be needed to point it out. Blizzard doesn't need you to advertise their games. There is a whole universe between Path of Exile and Diablo 3. " reasons were listed. you don't seem to care about them. " So you think you're playing WoW here? Fine. It's cool. Get your guildies and do your raids. But dont expect everyone else to want to play the same way you are. Is that so hard to understand? We have the possibility of leagues that you do not have to play. How in hell does it affect you if other players get an option to play their way? " "Shut up and accept it because everything's fine for me." You evidently do not care. That is all. Last edited by Acrylique#7189 on Jul 25, 2014, 6:03:53 AM
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PoE needs to keep being on the trading route. Switching to SFL has the potential to kill this game.
SFL wont by itself fix at all the topics that ppl like to complain about. Crafting wont be more rewarding and less rng, drops (no matter how much they get buffed) will continue to create the same feeling amongst players (higher average droprates = higher expectation standards = more drops but same unrewarding feeling after the 3rd bor dropped but not the mjölner). Also: Players should be able to play self found and get a tag for this. Games then can be limited to players with the SFL tag. This would be the best solution. Last edited by LSN#3878 on Jul 25, 2014, 6:14:35 AM
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" This game is dead a thousand times, if you read the forums. It's getting killed each patch for some players. Of course it's still around, and it will be around once it's dead for you and me. So big deal. If GGG wants to stay on the trading path and not give players a choice, let them. Standard is still a very playable alternative to the temp. leagues. I am just pointing out how stupid some of the arguments opposing an optional league are. Because there aren't any really, it's just elitism, resentment for D3 and the like. Last edited by Acrylique#7189 on Jul 25, 2014, 6:21:31 AM
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" This isn't a fair argument to make for one, as you're simplifying the game down to nothing more than a game where you "kill monsters". Whilst that is a fundamental element of ARPG's so is understanding how to kill monsters, what is required to do so and what to even do with an item when you find one. One could easily reverse your argument as so: " In this example I remove the step requiring "negotiation" because it's just not necessary anymore. One could make the argument that that's easier but it's not particularly hard to put a fixed/buyout price on an item and wait for the fish to bite. ARPG's are very hard and they're not hard their very nature. They're very grindy/repetitive games that require little thought outside of knowing when to stand out of the hurty, painful stuff. The biggest hurdle in a game like Diablo 2 or Path of Exile was in understanding builds (which wasn't too big an issue since replayability was heavily encouraged and easy to do) and understanding items, something that all aspects of the game, including trading, require. Trading isn't inherently easier than farming for monsters and getting lucky. It requires the same innate knowledge to find an item to trade as it does to find one to actually use. Knowing the difference and value between "life on hit" and "fire resistance" is important whether you're trading or not. It also requires a bit of luck because you have thousands of other people just like you selling their crap, too. If you won lotto you'd congratulate yourself, wouldn't you? Wondering why you get congratulated on a windfall is like wondering why we congratulate your birthday. A yearly even that's going to happen every year on the same day until the day you die. It's nothing important. It's a bloody number that becomes entirely useless after you're 25 because by then you can do anything you want and yet we still "celebrate" it. Why? Because it makes us feel good. Because it's fun. The reason I dislike trading in PoE, or the heavy reliance on trading, is because I have always believed it destroys the nature of an ARPG. If GGG want PoE to be a trade-based game then great, let us know now and forever hold your peace. They haven't alluded to this though, and I think it'd destroy the point of an ARPG to go that route. The reason Diablo 3's AH was hated and eventually removed was because the game became second nature to trading. Nobody played the game to play the game, they played the game so they could trade for more items so they could play the game to trade for more items. You know what's that called? A fucking job. One of those desk jobs or retail shifts you do day in and day out hoping to god it'll get better if you just do one more day. You know what that is? Insanity. I paid for Diablo 2 back in the day because I wanted to kill monsters. I wanted to collect loot, crawl dungeons and kill all the baddies. Same reason I played The Legend of Zelda. I understand that we are technically doing the same thing everyday in the hope we'll get lucky and get the new fancy unique, and perhaps that insane, too, but the goal is just far more enjoyable for me. I hate being in a job where my only desire is to get that juicy paycheck at the end of the week. That's just boring. It's unfulfilling and unfun. I need goals and ambition. Something more to drive for than a simple paycheck I can get by stacking shelves all day, just so I can pay the bills to do it all the week after. That's what trading feels like to me. Whereas playing the game is the same thing with purpose. The desire to succeed on my own two legs, work hard and play harder is all there. Yes, in a game like Path of Exile it's based on randomness and that's actually why I liked Diablo 3's "safety net" (you get at least one legendary every 2 hours, on average) as there was now a goal we could reliably aim for. Trading is not reliable though, it's based on the same level of luck as self-found is since you're hoping you'll find a lucky drop (yes you can play the market but most people don't and you need the initial investment first anyway) but you're not playing for the games sake. Now both require you to play the game, so I ultimately believe that if you genuinely enjoy trading then that's great for you. I don't think the trade forums, trade channel or sites like POE.XYZ should ever go away, but I think trading should be devalued or uniques a bit easier to get for those who do not want to do it like myself. For people who find satisfaction in just playing the game rather than trading amongst it. I didn't like Blizzard's new restrictions on trading after they removed the AH myself. I absolutely hate the fact I can't trade anything with my mates unless they're in my group at the time and hence I still love PoE for that openness. But I also hate spending entire days, weeks even and getting absolutely nothing. I'm a long-time Diablo and Titan Quest player so believe me, I know what a grind is like. That doesn't mean it should stay like that. Just because something is doesn't mean it should be, otherwise we'd still be living in shacks without fire or wheels. Last edited by MrTastix#0770 on Jul 25, 2014, 6:29:32 AM
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" Its not meant to fix those fucking problems, wtf? I just want it so I can play that way and see how I am going compared to other people also playing that way. Id also settle for a simple option for 'self found only' when creating a character in the leagues if they were marked or something on the ladders. No other changes and I would still be ok with it. I wouldnt mind some crafting changes, but I want those for the NORMAL game to so... Man, its like you people think people who want SFL think it will fix every problem this game has. I cant speak for everyone but I doubt anyone actually believes that.. IGN
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" No. You don't understand what kept D2 alive that long. It was not grinding baal endlessly for sure. But it was interaction abilities amongst players and incredible rare stuff that could drop. Splitting of players on the different leagues is one of PoEs bigger problems and makes league feel dead/empty and triggers ppl to leave. Increasing the number of simultaniously running leagues will also create more confusion amongst new players. If my friend likes to play SFL and I like to play with trading we both not wont be able to play together if a SFL existed. It is one of the core concepts to keep things as transparent and easy as possible. As PoE has alot of difficulties that makes players quit quickly (most steam downloaders of PoE didnt get past the warden?) it is unreasonable to add more of these. Effects: When a new player joins poe and decides for a league, plays char up to 80 and then finds out he opted for the wrong league for what he wanted to do (lack of information didnt allow him to make correct choice in the beginning) he potentially leaves the game. When a SFL is running for 3-4 months (probably even way earlier) ppl will find it to have the same problems. As SFL didnt resolve their thing they lose hope and potentially leave the game (just like all the D3 SFL heroes who like it that much this way but dont play the game anymore for reasons they neither know or want to admit, they just like the feeling of noone else is able to do better than them with efforts but just by pure rng). As GGG invested developing time on SFL instead of addressing the actual issues, all players will be affected and lose hope for things to get better as focus was put on wrong issues. Releasing an untweaked/unbalanced SFL with same droprates as the trade leagues will create bad experiences amongst players who play it (causes player loss). Releasing a SFL that is more or less rewarding than the regular pendant will create bad feelings amongst players (causes paler loss). Playing in a SFL will create exactly the same issues that ppl in D3 have: Finding a soul taker 3 times while finding zero kaoms and your friend finds 3 kaoms but no soul taker is creating this useless feeling of "why am I not able to give him one of my soul takers in return of a kaoms, why does the game troll us that much, lets play smth else". And I could go on with these little things probably for pages that in the end will cause player loss while actual issues are not being addressed just for the sake of having a SFL. The whole issue about getting a SFL is made up. There is none. It is just that ppl do not understand and think through stuff to the end. The small benefits a SFL do expose to a small number of players (I agree that they exist) do in no way outweigh the large number of disadvantages. Poe should offer SFL tags to players in the regular leagues instead. That way they can play and compete together but also can choose to play with a friend who trades occasionally. Last edited by LSN#3878 on Jul 25, 2014, 7:00:39 AM
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@ LSN
It might cause those problems with someone like you, but people like you are not going to PLAY THE OPTIONAL SFL WE WANT, so its not a bloody problem.. The only problem I can accept is that it may split players, but honestly I view this as a non issue cause all that means to me is I dont have to deal with the traders.. IGN
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