Trade Hate: Which one takes more skill?

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iamstryker wrote:

No, I would rather no one bring it up at all since without a good in game poll being done no one really knows, its all conjecture based on what we see in the forums which has low traffic. I only respond to those accusing my side of being a minority. I do not use that argument to sound more right, what I do say in here is that GGG only needs to see enough people interested in it, which based on the many many threads over the last year they probably are getting the hint that plenty of people are interested.

Number of threads is no indicator at all. You could have a very vocal minority of 100 people make 1000 threads over a year, and it proves nothing. Whether or not they are a minority being conjecture is irrelevant. The current status of things does not include it, so the affirmative (that's you guys) needs to show overwhelming support--not just few threads.

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This league would just be an addition to the game, it needs no justification other than enough people wanting to play it whether they are not satisfied with the current game or just want something else to do. Everyone knows that GGG doesn't have to make it.

1. It does need justification, or there is no point even bringing it up.

2. You keep repeating the same stale argument, and it comes down to this: Show us the numbers that support your claim. If you cannot or will not, your claim is useless.

Does a SFL league would have to disable the common chest between the character of one player account ?

I mean.. the common chest is in itself a form of sharing since you get to have access to quest reward you shouldn't have or items drop not actually dropped by your character.

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AlbinosaurusRex wrote:

Number of threads is no indicator at all. You could have a very vocal minority of 100 people make 1000 threads over a year, and it proves nothing.

When did I say that it did? What I said was that an in game poll would show the real numbers. The threads is just my opinion on whether or not I think that there is enough support. I personally think that GGG knows there is probably enough support for it as well.

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so the affirmative (that's you guys) needs to show overwhelming support--not just few threads.

WTF? Thats not going to happen as I can not make an in game poll. If you want to see a forum poll then go find Petrovs thread.

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1. It does need justification, or there is no point even bringing it up.

What other justification is there other than people wanting to play it? Its not like there are any arguments to show why GGG NEEDS to make a SFL. They don't need to its just something a portion of the player base WANTS. All players can do is describe why they would like to play it or what they think is missing from the core game that makes them want to play it.

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2. You keep repeating the same stale argument, and it comes down to this: Show us the numbers that support your claim. If you cannot or will not, your claim is useless.

I don't have to show anything. I am just a customer posting about what I would LIKE TO SEE. I can do that whether or not I have solid numbers or not. I do not have access to any way to get the numbers of EVERY PLAYER who would like to play a SFL. Neither do you so demanding that from either side is dumb. If GGG really wants the numbers then they can get them. But if you want forum numbers then go search all of the threads or just go look at Petrovs poll, its not hard to make an educated guess.

Edit: Player Justification- 1) SFL players lack a leaderboard, 2) SFL players lack any real way to play with other SFL players that they know with near certainty are in fact Self Found 3) Some PoE players feel the drop rates are boring as a result of the economy, 4) Some players hate to trade and feel pushed to due to the bad drop rates, 5) Some players feel crafting suffers due to the game being built for an economy and the drop rates for currency being too low. 6) Some players feel a SFL would help to get rid of most RMT. etc etc just writing off the top of my head.

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I don't have to show anything. I am just a customer posting about what I would LIKE TO SEE. I can do that whether or not I have solid numbers or not. I do not have access to any way to get the numbers of EVERY PLAYER who would like to play a SFL. Neither do you so demanding that from either side is dumb. If GGG really wants the numbers then they can get them. But if you want forum numbers then go search all of the threads or just go look at Petrovs poll, its not hard to make an educated guess.

Actually since you are the one claiming there is support for this the burden of proof does in fact fall on you. GGG doesn't want the numbers, I don't really think they care at all about this idea whatsoever. There isn't even close to widespread support for this idea, and even among the infinitesimally tiny portion of the community that wants this, they are divided on why they want it and how they want it implemented. Yeah, I don't see this ever happening.

I love trading!

Its not like I have 1000's of exalts, but enjoy the game with trading, and it actually makes my gaming experience more rewarding that I have that opportunity!

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ghost8686 wrote:

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I don't have to show anything. I am just a customer posting about what I would LIKE TO SEE. I can do that whether or not I have solid numbers or not. I do not have access to any way to get the numbers of EVERY PLAYER who would like to play a SFL. Neither do you so demanding that from either side is dumb. If GGG really wants the numbers then they can get them. But if you want forum numbers then go search all of the threads or just go look at Petrovs poll, its not hard to make an educated guess.

There isn't even close to widespread support for this idea,

This is you making a claim, and unless you can support it I call bullshit and demand you prove it!

Because, well, thats what you are doing to him atm.

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ghost8686 wrote:

Actually since you are the one claiming there is support for this the burden of proof does in fact fall on you.

Except thats not true. The people in this thread calling other people a vocal minority is your side. I am simply giving my educated guess. What I say is that its all conjecture and GGG should gauge the interest.

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ghost8686 wrote:

GGG doesn't want the numbers, I don't really think they care at all about this idea whatsoever. There isn't even close to widespread support for this idea, and even among the infinitesimally tiny portion of the community that wants this, they are divided on why they want it and how they want it implemented. Yeah, I don't see this ever happening.

Then there isn't much reason for the people against it to spend so much time arguing about it eh?

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MierenEronaile wrote:

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ghost8686 wrote:

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I don't have to show anything. I am just a customer posting about what I would LIKE TO SEE. I can do that whether or not I have solid numbers or not. I do not have access to any way to get the numbers of EVERY PLAYER who would like to play a SFL. Neither do you so demanding that from either side is dumb. If GGG really wants the numbers then they can get them. But if you want forum numbers then go search all of the threads or just go look at Petrovs poll, its not hard to make an educated guess.

There isn't even close to widespread support for this idea,

This is you making a claim, and unless you can support it I call bullshit and demand you prove it!

Because, well, thats what you are doing to him atm.

Nope. You are wrong. I am not making a claim, I am denying his claim. He still has burden of proof.

And I actually do have evidence anyways. There is a poll by a guy called mrpetrov about whether people want a self found league. After over 4 months it has a paltry 1714 respondents. Since its a thread about making a SFL, people interested in this idea are far more likely to visit the thread and vote in the first place. Out of that measly 1714 people only 66% actually affirmed they would be in favor of testing a self found league. This thread and its results confirmed for me essentially no support exists for this idea and as a result I can't see it being implemented.

He is claiming there is enough support, and you are claiming there is a tiny minority. You are not denying his claim, you are making your own counter claim. Not saying

'No, there is not support' you are saying 'There is only a tiny minority'

Also, stop asking us to fucking do polls if any poll we could do would 'Not have enough respondents'

What you are doing there is asking us to do something impossible and then saying since we can not do it our whole argument is invalid.

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ghost8686 wrote:

And I actually do have evidence anyways. There is a poll by a guy called mrpetrov about whether people want a self found league. After over 4 months it has a paltry 1714 respondents. Since its a thread about making a SFL, people interested in this idea are far more likely to visit the thread and vote in the first place. Out of that measly 1714 people only 66% actually affirmed they would be in favor of testing a self found league. This thread and its results confirmed for me essentially no support exists for this idea and as a result I can't see it being implemented.

Interesting way of looking at it. Your leaving out the 13% that maybe in favor depending on the details. So out of every player who voted only 19% were not in favor. You can think what you want but to me that looks like plenty of support.

http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/854111

For those interested.