Trade Hate: Which one takes more skill?

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AlbinosaurusRex wrote:

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iamstryker wrote:

Path of Exile wasn't cutthroat before or now. Cutthroat kind of means killing other players and none of that was ever in the game. Stealing loot off of the ground is the furtherest thing from cutthroat. But of course that's off topic. Believe it or not some people just want to play a self found league (balanced for such play) because it sounds fun, the current game is already easy for these people, there are no ulterior motives. People who want to play it because it sounds fun aren't idiots, cry babies, children or whatever label you and others want to stick onto them.

If self found sounds fun to them, and this game doesn't, they should just go play D3 instead.

I just do not understand this whole 'if you like self found play d3' business. Its like you think the only difference between d3 and poe is trade lol..

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MierenEronaile wrote:

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AlbinosaurusRex wrote:

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iamstryker wrote:

Path of Exile wasn't cutthroat before or now. Cutthroat kind of means killing other players and none of that was ever in the game. Stealing loot off of the ground is the furtherest thing from cutthroat. But of course that's off topic. Believe it or not some people just want to play a self found league (balanced for such play) because it sounds fun, the current game is already easy for these people, there are no ulterior motives. People who want to play it because it sounds fun aren't idiots, cry babies, children or whatever label you and others want to stick onto them.

If self found sounds fun to them, and this game doesn't, they should just go play D3 instead.

I just do not understand this whole 'if you like self found play d3' business. Its like you think the only difference between d3 and poe is trade lol..

It's just a silly way of insulting somebody because D3 is obviously for babies.
This is usually just a way to dismiss legitimate criticism by attacking another player's nerd cred.

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DeviantLightning wrote:

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MierenEronaile wrote:

I just do not understand this whole 'if you like self found play d3' business. Its like you think the only difference between d3 and poe is trade lol..

It's just a silly way of insulting somebody because D3 is obviously for babies.
This is usually just a way to dismiss legitimate criticism by attacking another player's nerd cred.

Actually, it's neither. I play both games depending on what kind of game I'm in the mood for. Admittedly, I consider D3 an enormous failure (for reasons that would both be off-topic and far too extensive to entail here) and spent a lot more time on PoE by comparison, but D3 has some appealing aspects too. My original statement wasn't a put-down. It was a suggestion: If game A doesn't offer what game B does, go play game B instead. That being the case, when you're tired of feeling like the game's progression is too easy because the way self-found works in that game is too generous, come back and play here. Just don't expect PoE to be a self-found game. You're still free to play that way, of course. You're just not likely to see a whole league around it.

Edit: I don't need to dismiss any legitimate criticism, because none has been brought forth. So there's that too.

The only 'legitimate' reason for a SFL would be if it benefits the company.. because that is what matters. For it to benefit the company it needs to please 'x' amount of the player base.

Pretty much anything else is superfluous.. This is not something we can actually 'show' to you, all we can do is show our support for the idea so GGG knows some of us want it.

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MierenEronaile wrote:

The only 'legitimate' reason for a SFL would be if it benefits the company.. because that is what matters. For it to benefit the company it needs to please 'x' amount of the player base.

Pretty much anything else is superfluous.. This is not something we can actually 'show' to you, all we can do is show our support for the idea so GGG knows some of us want it.

Then make a poll or gather data that shows quantifiable support for the idea.

As far as I'm considered, SFL supporters are a vocal minority. You're not going to get anywhere by yelling the loudest. GGG sure as hell doesn't have the time to go through a 100+ page thread just to figure out that the same several people are repeating the same exact meaningless arguments on every single page.

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rrtson wrote:

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MierenEronaile wrote:

The only 'legitimate' reason for a SFL would be if it benefits the company.. because that is what matters. For it to benefit the company it needs to please 'x' amount of the player base.

Pretty much anything else is superfluous.. This is not something we can actually 'show' to you, all we can do is show our support for the idea so GGG knows some of us want it.

Then make a poll or gather data that shows quantifiable support for the idea.

As far as I'm considered, SFL supporters are a vocal minority. You're not going to get anywhere by yelling the loudest. GGG sure as hell doesn't have the time to go through a 100+ page thread just to figure out that the same several people are repeating the same exact meaningless arguments on every single page.

I agree thats what would be needed, I just dont think ME making a poll is going to help. We would need to convince GGG to consider the idea and gather that data themselves /shrug.

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rrtson wrote:

As far as I'm considered, SFL supporters are a vocal minority. You're not going to get anywhere by yelling the loudest. GGG sure as hell doesn't have the time to go through a 100+ page thread just to figure out that the same several people are repeating the same exact meaningless arguments on every single page.

After the shitfest that followed the 1 month league announcement, one can take it that a minority hissyfitting the loudest is exactly what gets you everywhere.

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ghost8686 wrote:

Oh really? Because the only change I have seen to back that up is the introduction of permanent allocation, which was not a major part of their design in the first place. Sure, Chris liked short allocation better but it really wasn't a huge part of the game, unlike trading which is literally described in the overview of the game as being what the entire game is designed around.

My point is that players influence the direction of the game and changes happen that otherwise wouldn't happen if the devs were only making it for themselves. Of course loot allocation is an example and its a bigger deal than you think it is. FFA loot was one of the reasons people tried to call this a cutthroat game. You couldn't play in public games without having to basically fight over loot by sprinting to it as soon as it drops. Its a big difference that you no longer have to do that.

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What does that even mean? I said countless times I AM interested in hearing an actual argument. All you keep doing is spewing bullshit about how your opinion somehow matters. Why do you think GGG should base the game around what some random people think?

Random people? I am a customer of theirs. Of course they care what I think. As I said I have my reasons for wanting to play it but I'm not going to waste my time telling you. The only real reason GGG needs is that enough players want it and could be willing to pay for it.

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It's one thing to make suggestions that improve the game and fix problems that they didn't intend to exist, its another to demand them to change their entire design to be what you want.

One league is hardly changing the entire game. And yes most people want this league due to issues with the current game.

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If I asked for them to introduce pay to win elements such as paying for a respec, or for more cartoony cosmetic skins, that would be utterly ridiculous since both those things go against the core design of the game.

I don't think a SFL compares to asking for pay to win elements or making the game easier. I see it as a just a modified version of the game, something anyone would expect to see in paid leagues. If it never happens oh well, I still did my part in saying what I think.

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But that is literally exactly the same thing you are doing by asking for a self found league. It's not that I "think it doesn't fit their vision", it literally says in plain text on this site that they want this game based around trade, just because you refuse to accept that fact doesn't make it untrue.

And the game still would be except for one league. Do you think that EVERYONE who plays right now is trading? Are those people not really playing path of exile?

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Yeah I am going to need a source on this, so I can see exactly what they said. If GGG is ok with a self found league I wouldn't give a shit, I just see no evidence at all to suggest that being the case.

I never said they were ok with a self found league. Just that they advertised paid leagues for a long time on the website. Here's what they have written on the leagues section of the website.....

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I'm calling bullshit. You haven't given me an argument because you don't have one. All you have done is repeat in every post that "it's my opinion it would be good" which once again is not an argument.

Are you wanting my reasons for wanting a SFL or arguments for why GGG should make the league? The only real argument for why GGG should make it and the only argument for ANYTHING in the game is that enough people want it. Of course GGG don't have to put a SFL or any extra content into the game. They don't have to do anything. Its just what do they have the time/resources to do and do they think its worth the effort. Based on what I have seen in the forums I think a SFL would be very popular so I simply think that it would be worth the effort and a popular league. Thats the only reason that matters.

Now if you want to know why I am interested in playing it I have no problem telling you just PM me if your really that interested.

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rrtson wrote:

Then make a poll or gather data that shows quantifiable support for the idea.

As far as I'm considered, SFL supporters are a vocal minority. You're not going to get anywhere by yelling the loudest. GGG sure as hell doesn't have the time to go through a 100+ page thread just to figure out that the same several people are repeating the same exact meaningless arguments on every single page.

Petrov has already made a poll to gauge interest and based on the forum population I would say there are a lot of votes interested.

The whole vocal minority thing is just an argument people throw around to feel like their side is right. I saw the same thing over and over again during the looting options discussions and we all know how popular that idea turned out to be right? If SFL wasn't' a popular idea then the shear amount of threads asking for it wouldn't have happened over the last year or so, its obviously pretty popular and I would love to see an in game poll, so its not just this small forum population.

@iamstryker

First of all, I doubt many people want a SFL in the first place. I seriously doubt many people would even play it. Aside from that, what you are asking for is clearly outside of GGG's design goal for the game. I am not saying they should just ignore customer feedback, I am saying what you want clearly makes you NOT part of their target audience. There is no reason a game should just constantly add random features to satisfy every single person that's ever played the game. Just imagine if games did that, it doesn't even make sense. This is a niche game targeted at a specific audience. I can guarantee you that if GGG wanted this game to appeal to everyone there is quite a few things they would do differently. That is not what they want.

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only argument for ANYTHING in the game is that enough people want it

This is where you keep making a huge mistake in your logic. Additions to the game can be based on things not working the way the developers intended. They can be based on quality of life changes that weren't originally considered, they can be based on game balance, they can be based on adding new content that GGG hasn't gotten around to yet (like the upcoming ~7 new acts), or any content that the player base wants that ACTUALLY fits into the games current model. It's one thing for people to suggest changes like "Oh a new orb that does X would be cool", and GGG to say "yeah that seems like a good addition lets add it". Suggesting something that goes against the very basic foundation of the game just doesn't make any sense, you just want to be playing a different game (or as you yourself said, a modified version). Even if it is a separate league it STILL doesn't make any sense.

HOWEVER: The thing you quoted about paid leagues with custom rules sounds like it could be cool, and if that is something GGG said they might want to implement I see no problems with that. However, I am not sure if GGG is still pursuing this idea, as I have not seen anything about it since beta.