Did anyone ever realize?

Saying that the players created the economy, and not the devs, is a lot like saying we built our characters, not the devs.

It's absolutely true, but it utterly misses the point of developer responsibility. It may be our economy, but it's built on a foundation of their rules.
When Stephen Colbert was killed by HYDRA's Project Insight in 2014, the comedy world lost a hero. Since his life model decoy isn't up to the task, please do not mistake my performance as political discussion. I'm just doing what Steve would have wanted.
It is the absence of rules that enables the economy to resemble real-life economy.

So yes i agree with you.

Freedom is not worth having if it does not include the freedom to make mistakes
Yha but the thing is . No matter what thare rules are, the same thing happens. All evidence points to the fact that the more interation / control Devs have on game economeys the more problimatic it becomes.

It's like trying to change the direction of a train , from 50 feet away ...with a sitck. Theyoreticaly this can be done , but can any 1 actualy do it.
Just a sec let me grab a beer...@#*@ Ok how did I die this time

Learn the rules, it's the only way to exploit them.
"
Boem wrote:
GGG is secretly selling there statistic to every nation worldwide, we are just the ants in the thread-mill for collecting data.

Also,

GGG does not make the economy, the community doe's, it's only logical people are not creative enough to device a new means of trade when a means is already embedded in there mind-set.

Peace,

-Boem-


Well shit guys. Pack it in everybody. We've been doing it wrong.
Time to institute in-game communism.


"
ScrotieMcB wrote:
"
DeviantLightning wrote:
Uhhhh . . . what you are saying and what Rosewater are saying are entirely different and unrelated things.

Rosewater is talking about making challenges.
So if the economy is a challenging minigame, then as far he's concerned, the game designer's goal is met.

Realism versus fantasy doesn't enter into it and is purely an aesthetic decision.
Okay, I'll concede different.

However, not unrelated. There's something about working on a game lamp which has a bit of, say, Alice in Wonderland to it. Mark's quote isn't utterly devoid of aesthetic content.

In terms of challenges, I honestly believe the bulk of making a challenging economy is in making a balanced non-economy. If players do not know what build is best, which uniques are best, which rare affixes are best... then you have challenge in valuation. (Not just economic, either; even staunch self-found types have to make evaluations to determine what to equip. But I digress.) Take away the obvious answers and you can make determining "uber" an actual challenge.

Since the non-economy does the heavy lifting for making the economy challenging, the only thing the economy itself needs to do is avoid interfering with players' own valuations. Priority one is avoiding telling players what the value is and forcing them as much as possible to actually designate a price themselves, avoiding yes/no mechanics and favoring price-designation mechanics (for both buyer and seller). Priority two — not far behind — is to make things as fast, convenient, easy, fun, immediate-impact, and automated as possible.


I still think you're trying to extend the metaphor to a place where it doesn't belong.
It's also a pretty strange metaphor to begin with.

And since there it seems to be a running theme in the thread:

What you propose sounds to me to be ultimately unworkable, both from a design perspective and from the fact that players will establish a meta and establish a somewhat stable system of value exchange (i.e. bartering). As long as there are common wants at all, there's just no getting around the fact that some commodities are going to be a kind of gold standard.

As it is, the market actually isn't that rational and putting prices is already pretty non-obvious outside of uniques.

The economy is technically a challenge as it is, even if it's not the sort of challenge you'd prefer.
Last edited by DeviantLightning#7374 on Jun 20, 2014, 8:01:44 AM
"
Well shit guys. Pack it in everybody. We've been doing it wrong.
Time to institute in-game communism.


Would be fun, but not competitive.

Thus, won't happen. The ego requires food.

Peace,

-Boem-
Freedom is not worth having if it does not include the freedom to make mistakes
"
DeviantLightning wrote:
"
Boem wrote:
GGG is secretly selling there statistic to every nation worldwide, we are just the ants in the thread-mill for collecting data.

Also,

GGG does not make the economy, the community doe's, it's only logical people are not creative enough to device a new means of trade when a means is already embedded in there mind-set.

Peace,

-Boem-


Well shit guys. Pack it in everybody. We've been doing it wrong.
Time to institute in-game communism.


So ironic that this in many ways is true


http://kotaku.com/the-extraordinary-mischievous-too-short-life-of-sean-481060252

^^ Very good High level EvE online brass in a alliance based around deception and lies... Real life CIA spy who helped do real life hostile take overs of regions and install pupet goverments.

( not putting Vile down just .. truth is truth. )
Just a sec let me grab a beer...@#*@ Ok how did I die this time

Learn the rules, it's the only way to exploit them.
"
Boem wrote:
"
Well shit guys. Pack it in everybody. We've been doing it wrong.
Time to institute in-game communism.


Would be fun, but not competitive.

Thus, won't happen. The ego requires food.

Peace,

-Boem-


Why do all your posts look like an email, signed and all?

Posts dont need to be signed...

...especially when its not even your real name.

Spoiler
Just sayin...

...no offense.
^Because obviously i like to do this.

Does it need further explanation if i enjoy it?

Also you are derailing your own thread, congratz.

Peace,

-Boem-

(i only do things for my personal enjoyment)
Freedom is not worth having if it does not include the freedom to make mistakes
"
DirkAustin wrote:
The 'economy' in POE is a reflection of the real life economy?

Legacy items for example go up in price like comic books do and other limited edition things like expensive cars and such.

New uniques or alt art uniques tend to be higher in price when theyre new because so few have them like every new release there is.

The only thing missing here is the sales. I dont see people in the game do sales to get more people to buy from them quite the opposite.

The rich get richer and the poor go poorer even in a virtual economy.

And like in real life, bots do it better, faster and are more efficient (even though illegal in a game) than the real player. Does this mean to give more people jobs we should make machines/robots legal in real life too?

Does POE and arpg games in general need this imbalance? The distinction of poor and rich?

We even have the politician like people who spy on our profile only to tell us we are not good enough to talk to them about 'endgame' because we are not on their 'level'.


People play games because they're BETTER than real life (not completely, of course, but at certain area of view). For example, in real-life war you die permanently when killed, but in game you can respawn and fix your failures. For me, it's much more fun to have many lifes in game, rather than have just one life in real world.
If game's economy follows the same unfair rules as real-life one, then i see no reasons to play it. It wont be fun.
At least, that's my point of view. Game should be better than real life, or it makes no sense to exist.
IGN: MortalKombat
Molten Strike build guide: https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1346504

There is no knowledge
That is not power
Last edited by MortalKombat3#6961 on Jun 20, 2014, 8:19:16 AM
"
DirkAustin wrote:
Posts dont need to be signed...


I seem to accept post signing lately, its annoyance has been trumped by animal faces that you only know to be animal faces because the creator goes so far to tell you they are.

War

-Anu-
Casually casual.

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