1.2.0 Improvements to New User Experience

Links need a tutorial. Can't tell you how many players I've seen with sockets but no links and not understanding why something isn't working.

Since the first couple pages there has been a lot of support for tutorials. While I am in favor of giving players more hints, I am staunchhly against any formal tutorial being inserted into the experience, at any time, regardless of duration. Wraeclast should never, ever hold your hand... but it's okay for it to point and say "look there" a handful of times.

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

Since the first couple pages there has been a lot of support for tutorials. While I am in favor of giving players more hints, I am staunchhly against any formal tutorial being inserted into the experience, at any time, regardless of duration. Wraeclast should never, ever hold your hand... but it's okay for it to point and say "look there" a handful of times.

most difficult games have their difficulty based on complex mechanics and/or fabulous AI - NOT on guessing games

one word - Civilopedia. it contains EVERYTHING. there is not a single bit of information (Except for bugs) that is not included. does it make Civ a 'casual' game? does it make it easy?

'difficulty by obscurity' is good only for inflating egos, but for nothing more

Balancing the game so that players start out feeling very powerful. - NO

Balancing the game so that players start out feeling weak. - YES

Early Attack Speed - NO

Tutorial Elements - NO (maybe a small part of them)

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The whole fun of PoE is to discover themselves the secrets and the hundred combinations..of what they should do at the game... Don't do it friendly wise...it's HC game for christ sake! That's why there isn't any other game like this out there..

Keep it Hard..Keep it Hardcore!

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Kalidor wrote:

Balancing the game so that players start out feeling very powerful. - NO

Balancing the game so that players start out feeling weak. - YES

Early Attack Speed - NO

Tutorial Elements - NO (maybe a small part of them)

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The whole fun of PoE is to discover themselves the secrets and the hundred combinations..of what they should do at the game... Don't do it friendly wise...it's HC game for christ sake! That's why there isn't any other game like this out there..

Keep it Hard..Keep it Hardcore!

there is nothing hard about guessing. information is available on the internet so the 'hardcores' can read them

but this is about making poe attractive for new players. not inflating ego of long-lasting players

want to see how current poe fares at attracting new players? (players that fund poe by the way) check steamchart

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sidtherat wrote:

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

Since the first couple pages there has been a lot of support for tutorials. While I am in favor of giving players more hints, I am staunchhly against any formal tutorial being inserted into the experience, at any time, regardless of duration. Wraeclast should never, ever hold your hand... but it's okay for it to point and say "look there" a handful of times.

most difficult games have their difficulty based on complex mechanics and/or fabulous AI - NOT on guessing games

one word - Civilopedia. it contains EVERYTHING. there is not a single bit of information (Except for bugs) that is not included. does it make Civ a 'casual' game? does it make it easy?

'difficulty by obscurity' is good only for inflating egos, but for nothing more

The question isn't whether there should be a wiki-type learning tool. There definitely should be, and there definitely is. The question I was addressing is how much the game should intrude into your gameplay in order to teach you. My belief is that PoE should treat such things precisely the same way it treats lore: something which is there, but which does not at any time force itself upon the player. The rationale behind not forcing learning on the player is precisely the same as the reason for not forcing lore upon them. In other words: no proper tutorials whatsoever.

Note that something like Civilpedia is not, at its core, a tutorial. It's roughly equivalent to an official wiki.

Things like the "Press Alt" pop-up are good, in moderation. It doesn't force you through a series of steps, it just points at something so you can learn. We probably need more of those. Making players aware of how to access an encyclopedia, whether it's third-party or GGG-owned, is also probably a good idea. But tutorials still suck.

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

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sidtherat wrote:

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

Since the first couple pages there has been a lot of support for tutorials. While I am in favor of giving players more hints, I am staunchhly against any formal tutorial being inserted into the experience, at any time, regardless of duration. Wraeclast should never, ever hold your hand... but it's okay for it to point and say "look there" a handful of times.

most difficult games have their difficulty based on complex mechanics and/or fabulous AI - NOT on guessing games

one word - Civilopedia. it contains EVERYTHING. there is not a single bit of information (Except for bugs) that is not included. does it make Civ a 'casual' game? does it make it easy?

'difficulty by obscurity' is good only for inflating egos, but for nothing more

The question isn't whether there should be a wiki-type learning tool. There definitely should be, and there definitely is. The question I was addressing is how much the game should intrude into your gameplay in order to teach you. My belief is that PoE should treat such things precisely the same way it treats lore: something which is there, but which does not at any time force itself upon the player. The rationale behind not forcing learning on the player is precisely the same as the reason for not forcing lore upon them. In other words: no proper tutorials whatsoever.

Note that something like Civilpedia is not, at its core, a tutorial. It's roughly equivalent to an official wiki.

Things like the "Press Alt" pop-up are good, in moderation. It doesn't force you through a series of steps, it just points at something so you can learn. We probably need more of those. Making players aware of how to access an encyclopedia, whether it's third-party or GGG-owned, is also probably a good idea. But tutorials still suck.

just want to say that poe wiki is more outdated than helpful - sadly. and while some time ago that was a frequently accurate source of knowledge currently it is frequently obsolete source. its mere existence for some time took off the responsibility to create such source from ggg but time is high for ggg to finally create 'official' poencyclopedia

GGG please don't compromise your brilliant vision just to bring in a bunch of babies.
There is no handholding in wraeclast, babies get left dead in the cold sand.

If you have to do tutorial type stuff please show not tell.
Have your pots start empty and half fill when you kill the first zombie.
Show other exiles on the beach letting themselves get surrounded, swarmed, then killed.
Show two exiles running from cannibals on the coast and get ignited by firebombs. One dies burning, the other makes it through only to die at you feet to a crab. When the second one dies he drops a white ruby ring.

Tinkering with speeds may be a good idea but please be careful.
I agree with other posters that accuracy and mana cost issues hurt the early experience more than speed.
A more clear whiff sound or animation would help a lot, but also chance to miss early zombies and crabs should be 0.
For mana... I've long though you should reduce base skill costs and increase support costs to compensate.
Maybe have support costs start higher and go down every level?

I also agree wih other posters the single best thing you could do is make tooltips more detailed and explicit.
Armor encumberance is a big thing and should be made clear.
Skill leveling tooltip should show all changes.
Mouse over skill tooltip should be simple but the character screen details really needs improvement, especially on minion skills or when you use supports like melee splash. Tell us everything.

Make a default view of the skill tree a half screen one like the inventory screen.
This would narrow the view, making it less overwhelming for first timers.
Then you could open the character screen on the other side and see values change as you selected skills without committing them.

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FillInTheBlank wrote:

Quest rewards need to be improved in some way. Giving an unid rare as a reward is a nice gesture but the chance of it being useful make it almost less useful than the support gem I might have needed.

I don't really know what a solution would be, I just know that right now item quest rewards are not in a great spot.

I also guess gem rewards might need a look over, sometimes a class doesn't get a gem you expect it would.

What I would find rewarding is to have a vendor add a mod to an item, with 3 options: strength mod, intelligence mod or dexterity mod.

BTW I hope not too offtopic but speaking of an attractive game for new players: I feel that the PoE world good be a bit more lively. There are hardly any visual scenes and NPCs and bosses are basically just standing in 1 spot (before the attack you).

For example: Lady Diabella and Marveil have a throne but just stand in front of it. It would be more interesting if they sit and some sort of scene would take place before the fight to make the story more interesting.