guess I'll play by the rules
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Err, uhh... WTH Russell, some weird fantasy online shit there or? O.o I should prolly read the thread back, maybe find out what the hell, but than again ...
GGG - Why you no?
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" We realized that people needed a place to talk about the thread deletion so we've let this thread and the other like it to remain in GD. I'm going to use this opportunity as a spring board to talk about a few things raised today in these threads. Normally we don't discuss moderator actions in the forums, but we understand the thread deletion earlier has generated a bit of an abnormal state, so lets work with it. It's true that it is our responsibility to be as clear and consistent in our moderation as possible, we want this to be the case so we do apologize if our actions have caused confusion. From what I've read the criticisms against the moderation today fall into two categories. 1) The original thread should not have been deleted. 2) GGG is not deleting enough and/or is inconsistent in their moderation. Firstly, reiterating Chris's 'no hateful posts' rule: " The deleted thread definitely fell within this definition; it was not constructive and it served only as a conveyor of hostility. You will never see critical feedback deleted if it's presented in a civil manner; allowing for the alternative only invites a downward spiral. In this regard there is no debate. Regarding inconsistent moderation I'll try and address some of that here: 1) The Human factor: While we do have policies and procedure that are followed, there will always be a margin of error - some moderators are quicker at spotting issues than others; some will be more lenient others. Sometimes a thread will remain in GD longer than it should (I've been writing this reply so there's probably a few there now that need moving), but at most this is just a matter of organization and categorization - the moving of threads should not be perceived as a 'punishment' any more than a librarian placing books on certain shelves is a punishment, especially considering how consistent the developers are in reading all the different forums. 2) When to delete hate posts: This can often be like playing goalie in soccer/football at times, you could make a dozen saves but the audience only remembers the ball that hits the net. Deleting posts is still not a common practice, and we don't want it to be. That being said, do we hesitate on deleting some posts when we shouldn't? Yes, and responses to this recent thread deletion is an example of why we do. 'Censorship' is a rightfully serious issue, and we've taken a lot of pains in the past to avoid going into those darkened woods. Chris's change of policy a few months ago gave us licence to enter those woods in specific circumstances, but its still a dark place, hostile and full of roots to trip the unwary. I want to reiterate that we're not against civil criticism, and we're not taking secret steps to a more draconian forum. You're welcome to give us feedback on how we can do our jobs better because the common interest I'm sure most of us share is that we want the forum to be a better place to talk about Path of Exile. Edit: spelling Last edited by Michael_GGG#0000 on Feb 20, 2014, 12:18:01 AM
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"Okay. I think the "No Hateful Posts" policy is a step in the right direction, but suffers from not being clear enough. Hate is a very tricky emotion. There are things about the game which I hate, and my sharing that hatred for a virtual object is valid feedback. One of the primary purposes of reading player feedback is precisely to figure out what elements of the game they hate (and, if possible, why). Therefore, hatred — or any other feeling — is not the key determinant. What you're really looking out for is a troublesome communication style. In particular, by "No Hateful Posts" what you really mean is "No Aggressive Posts." After all, all I have to do is copy and paste some of the worse behavior from that list to get the things you're really trying to prevent: - try to dominate others - use humiliation to control others - criticize, blame, or attack others* - act threateningly and rudely * In this case you may wish to make it clear you're talking about people, rather than concepts. Clarifying some of the terminology and establishing that you're talking about a style of communication rather than a feeling, I believe, would help a lot in making it clear what you're trying to enforce. When Stephen Colbert was killed by HYDRA's Project Insight in 2014, the comedy world lost a hero. Since his life model decoy isn't up to the task, please do not mistake my performance as political discussion. I'm just doing what Steve would have wanted. Last edited by ScrotieMcB#2697 on Feb 20, 2014, 12:18:34 AM
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Thanks for the definitions ScrotieMcB, that's a good clarification for policy.
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I think people are entitled to their opinion even if it is antagonizing.
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" That's what 4chan is for |
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" They certainly are, but they don't have to post it every 5 minutes on a "fan site." All forums are fan sites, and fans don't have to be "white knights" or "trollolols." If a person thinks this game is literally perfect, then that's what they think. If a person feels this game was awesome, and then became a steaming pile of shit, they are welcome to that thought as well. But simply making a post that says "the last 4 months have sucked, so everything you're busting your ass to put into this game for us is going to suck even worse" doesn't make anything better, and doesn't even give a clear definition of what better would be to that player. Somewhere out there right now, the is a 16 year old girl crying because her hair isn't perfect for her birthday, and it's the WORST day of her life. To her, that is the worst thing ever, even if you had loved ones die on you, she feels the same way about that right now, as you feel about losing that loved one. The analogy is a bit of a stretch here I admit, but I hope everyone sees where I'm coming from. This forum doesn't need every single forum post to look like: This feature is so cool, do more of this. This feature here though isn't so good, and we should do this to fix it etc. etc. You're allowed to put your emotion in to the post! You're allowed to say "this mechanic really fucking sucks" or "Desynch is still really annoying and really making me not want to play much longer." Those are all valid. But making a new thread just to guess that something you haven't even touched yet is going to be shit is just stirring the pot. If you had been working overtime to do one single project for months, and some guy told you you were doing a shit job, you'd delete his post also. Try to respect the devs. They try to be real with us, and talk to us like humans instead of robots, so treat them like people and you'll get a lot more out of what you say. IGN = Dellusions_Duelist
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Why blame the players for how they feel about the game? Players should be allowed to express their feelings, even if these are negative or insulting. In fact the people that complain and the people that defend GGG blindly are both the same in a way: they are both heavily emotionally invested in the same. So as long as the fanboys can sugarcoat PoE's weaknesses the shit talkers should be allowed their share of feedback too.
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" Oh and by the way. ^^^ this post is exactly the double standard moderation what people are fed up with. Why is this post still up? This post is insulting and not civil. The reason it was not removed is not because of "human error", no it is because it defends GGG. Bah. | |
" Yes ppl are entitled to their toxic opinions as long as they keep it to themselves. also this is not public media so if the forum policy says "you shall not hate", they you SHALL. free of speech does not work on privately owned forum. and the devs are human beings, and they do check the forum often. non-constructive hateful feedback WILL affect their daily works. please think about the hateful posts in their positions. /forum/view-thread/869543 all my builds' compilation Please PM me on forum to inform me if I won an auction. Thank you. Last edited by abcnever#3020 on Feb 20, 2014, 2:15:24 AM
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