Legacy items
" You're hiding under insignificant and tiny technicalities. These items were "nerfed" because they were imbalanced, on the overpowered side of things. They circumvented the game balance boundaries. Otherwise they wouldnt do it. You cannot correct them by leaving all the imbalanced copies in the game and call it balance. What contains imbalances stays unbalanced. To say otherwise is an isult to common sense. This is pretty simple and sound reasoning that any of your hiding places cannot refute. Last edited by mobutu on Feb 13, 2014, 7:00:26 AM
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The items were too strong, but that doesn't mean the old versions should go away. Players have bought and sold these uniques now, their permanence in the game is assured. GGG would have had to nerf all such items during the patch they were changed in. Because they did not, they would do irreparable damage to the game fixing these items now.
My Keystone Ideas: http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/744282
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" Worse than just adding stuff to the legacy list indefinitely? Mayhap they're hoping there will one day be so many of them we won't remember which is which anymore, eh? :) Wish the armchair developers would go back to developing armchairs.
◄[www.moddb.com/mods/balancedux]► ◄[www.moddb.com/mods/one-vision1]► | |
" By 'individual item', he most-likely meant any unique that needs to be updated ( if that would be every instance, there would be no 'script' ), such as Kaom's ( that needs another mode then ). Playing with script on a test platform is easy ( even though it can be time consuming ), doing the real thing on a platform that thousands of players are already using is a complete different story. " This is not a pvp game ( the pvp part of PoE will be sucky forever because of how the passive skill tree and the uniques ), standard league is a league where the ladder is meaningless ( and has been meaningless for a while ). There is no need for a balance like real PvP games/competitive context need. Better not piss of players that invested a consequent enough amount of time in the game. If someone buys a Kaom's at 150 exa now and that it gets nerfed tomorrow, that may mean a player ragequitting, because some jealous kids would have made GGG change it. Hopefully, they won't. " And people claiming that this is not partly true are purely of bad faith. SSF is not and will never be a standard for balance, it is not for people entitled to getting more without trading.
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" Come on, man, where do you find the strength? We'll have legacy gems now, gems, for lord's sake, what's next? Where's the end to it? Is there even any? ... boy, this sounds dramatic as hell :) Anyway, one dev says they're here for technical reasons, the other calls it a feature, and the third claims a higher purpose as a test version of strong uniques, which is actually a counterargument. Maybe they don't know why they did it themselves, or maybe there was no reason, maybe they tossed an almond cookie and it landed on the chocolate side and all those are just clumsy excuses. Wish the armchair developers would go back to developing armchairs.
◄[www.moddb.com/mods/balancedux]► ◄[www.moddb.com/mods/one-vision1]► | |
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As I said in the other thread ( the one about the new "measures" about IIQ in couple of days, the first one of course ), IIQ gems will have much more impact than couple of unique items, I'm not sure why they are doing that this time ... :X.
There surely is a technical part in it, nothing impossible of course, but if it's time consuming + risky enough ... would it be worth it anyway ? I don't think so. And it is also partly a design decision. A test version of strong uniques ? Oo where did you see that ?? SSF is not and will never be a standard for balance, it is not for people entitled to getting more without trading. Last edited by Fruz on Feb 13, 2014, 8:51:03 AM
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" Yes most likely. But this work is really nothing amazingly complex. The pre-nerf stats of item of type X are known, the post nerf stats are also known. All you need to do is select all the items of type X and point them to newly generated stats. All this talk "stats are saved on the item" - what does that even mean? All data is stored in relational tables. Item X is connected to all its stats through field-to-field ids. All this relations can be easily changed to point to different stats. They could change your Kaoms into a Shvronne, or some mix of both items, with one SQL statement. (which would crash your client, anyway, but from the DB technical pov, it should be possible) (unless GGG uses some alien database system that no one in the world does, or they really fvked up the design to begin with) Anyway, this post, pretty much confirms that legacys are a design decision. Tech talk was just a smoke screen When night falls She cloaks the world In impenetrable darkness Last edited by morbo on Feb 13, 2014, 9:12:48 AM
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" In that other 'legacy is crap, me can't has any legagy items' thread you visited to say it's pointless. Anyway, it turned out far from pointless as Erik showed up and said this (page 4): " Which is really more of a counterargument, if you think about it, but there it is. It says: 'if an item turns out too good we can just make it legacy', which is a bit of a tripe, really. That's an argument for forced reroll, you won't make the house any cleaner by sweeping dirt under the carpet. Wish the armchair developers would go back to developing armchairs.
◄[www.moddb.com/mods/balancedux]► ◄[www.moddb.com/mods/one-vision1]► | |
" Stop making assessments like this, you don't know how they store their datas. And I can bet that every single item instance is stored somewhere, with its final values. It seems that only the ranges are stored in other tables ( which is only normal ). And I'm gonna repeat myself : " Now, that'd be cool if you could stop transforming your hypothesis ( which are imho partly wrong ) into statements. This is a design decision AND it would be too risky+time consuming to do otherwise anyway. " ah so that's what you meant. Well it definitely sounds like an "easy" way to go. I understand it more like "if we would not have legacy uniques, player would be somewhat discouraged to try approaching those limits because of the 'fear' of getting some items/builds nerfed". SSF is not and will never be a standard for balance, it is not for people entitled to getting more without trading. Last edited by Fruz on Feb 13, 2014, 9:29:45 AM
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" Translation: "We are to lazy to properly maintain the largest (and only permanent) leagues within the game. We think it is acceptable that players are forced to throw their characters into the trash can, wiping their progress and start over every 4 month." The technical reasons given are a load of bullcrap! Also no player would complain about a couple of hours downtime each month for maintenance since that is industry standard. Pissing of some players when nerfing stuff for the better of the game is part of being a game developer - if you cannot handle that quit your job and let another person do what needs to be done. The rest are just excuses for you laziness. Either you man up and properly maintain the standard leagues or I personally will be done with this game once my char is dumped into the broken trash league. |
