Most unique bosses do not have allies around them during some or most parts of the fight. This means that Elemental Proliferation does nothing.
I loled. Where do you even come up with a statement like that? Do you even play this game?
Almost every single boss in a map (Aka content you want to freeze to trivialize) has trash to proliferate from. The boss will be frozen as long as the trash blue/white monster is frozen, aka indefinitely.
But lets even go out of maps. Piety summons white trash. Dominus has trash on every stage. Vaal? Summons trash. Bandit lords? Kinda come packaged with white bandits. I think Brutus and Merviel phase 1 might be the ONLY BOSSES IN THE GAME without stuff to proliferate from.
You are thick.
You might want to re-read what you quoted from my post and then read yours.
You stated that most unique bosses don't have adds to proliferate from. I pointed out that 90%+ of bosses in this game have adds that are easily used to proliferate the freeze mine from.
You stated that most unique bosses don't have adds to proliferate from. I pointed out that 90%+ of bosses in this game have adds that are easily used to proliferate the freeze mine from.
Why you troll so bad?
My first post:
Spoiler
"
Natharias wrote:
"
Teridax wrote:
You dont need gear or passives.
Just a 2L and you are laughing.
Permafreeze is cheap, but its also pretty cool. I think it should be left in the game, but only if players actually invest in the skill.
It is true that you do not need gear for a skill that benefits so little from it. The only pieces of gear that would augment Freeze Mine would be weapons, rings, and an amulet. That's only five items. Not many. Especially when you consider a build that uses non-ES shields, two-handed weapons, or a Facebreaker based build. Most builds also do not have spell damage on their jewelry or shields.
As to passives, you do need them to permafreeze bosses and certain rares. They have so much health and such high resistances that they stay frozen for such a short amount of time that it is impossible to permafreeze them without any support.
In order to permafreeze everything, it requires Cold Penetration and Added Cold Damage and/or 25+% increased elemental, cold, or mine damage from your skill tree in order to begin permafreezing enemies.
You must also keep in mind that anything that does any AoE damage or uses Arc will prevent you from using traps and mines. The best example are the Battlemages in Battlefront that spam Arc like no tomorrow. Trappers have a lot of trouble if they don't have the notable that makes traps and mines immune to damage for five seconds.
Entailing the assumption that everything you fight has some resistance to cold, so the added damage to the gem as a requirement is logical.
My second post:
Spoiler
"
Natharias wrote:
"
Gravethought wrote:
The above poster has no idea what elemental proliferation is and how it works.
Elemental Proliferation, will only spread the highest ailment status to any target in range. This means the most damage will be transmitted to each target in range, which the duration is based on.
If the effect spreads from target to target, it will only be based on the maximum possible duration of each creature's life. A rare with increased life and high resistances will not be frozen as long as a regular white creature.
Most unique bosses do not have allies around them during some or most parts of the fight. This means that Elemental Proliferation does nothing.
So, why mention it, if it isn't going to be worthwhile most of the time? Cold Penetration and Added Cold Damage actually benefit you against a single target where Elemental Proliferation does, well, nothing.
I stated incorrectly that a rare would not be frozen as long as a white creature and that EP would be useful most of the time, but not all of the time. But I am correct in those times that you are alone with something with massive amounts of hit points and nothing to proliferate from.
My third post:
Spoiler
"
Natharias wrote:
"
Gravethought wrote:
"
Natharias wrote:
Most unique bosses do not have allies around them during some or most parts of the fight. This means that Elemental Proliferation does nothing.
I loled. Where do you even come up with a statement like that? Do you even play this game?
Almost every single boss in a map (Aka content you want to freeze to trivialize) has trash to proliferate from. The boss will be frozen as long as the trash blue/white monster is frozen, aka indefinitely.
But lets even go out of maps. Piety summons white trash. Dominus has trash on every stage. Vaal? Summons trash. Bandit lords? Kinda come packaged with white bandits. I think Brutus and Merviel phase 1 might be the ONLY BOSSES IN THE GAME without stuff to proliferate from.
You are thick.
You might want to re-read what you quoted from my post and then read yours.
I state that there are times where EP would be useless in some or most parts of every fight. This includes unique and rare fights, but not all builds. Some builds have the luxury of being able to leave a single white creature around to proliferate a freeze effect to a boss. Most don't.
You then question if I play the game, when it should be you who is questioned. The white trash that Piety summons doesn't last very long and she is busy nailing you with her arrows half of the time. At least some builds can't get up close to that, and her "trash" follows you, not her. Most of Piety's fight is mob-less. You might want to learn your game.
The whole point is that you are never alone with something massive except in very few circumstances in this game, and pretty much never once you enter maps.
Map bosses spawn with a pack next to them. Dominus spawns with adds and makes more in every phase of the fight. The whole point and complaint is that groups are just having someone freeze mine everything while someone doublestrikes/concfirestorms/facerolls the boss down with no risk because the monsters that originate the freeze can't die from the mine, because it doesn't do damage.
And for the record, you stated "Most unique bosses do not have allies around them during some or most parts of the fight." That statement is wrong no matter how you try to spin it. I pointed out that most unique bosses start with adds, and the boss will be dead before you kill them using the freeze mine + elemental proliferation (Cheesy) tactic.
The whole point is that you are never alone with something massive except in very few circumstances in this game, and pretty much never once you enter maps.
Map bosses spawn with a pack next to them. Dominus spawns with adds and makes more in every phase of the fight. The whole point and complaint is that groups are just having someone freeze mine everything while someone doublestrikes/concfirestorms/facerolls the boss down with no risk because the monsters that originate the freeze can't die from the mine, because it doesn't do damage.
And for the record, you stated "Most unique bosses do not have allies around them during some or most parts of the fight." That statement is wrong no matter how you try to spin it. I pointed out that most unique bosses start with adds, and the boss will be dead before you kill them using the freeze mine + elemental proliferation (Cheesy) tactic.
Lol. You just missed it again.
SOME OR MOST PARTS OF THE FIGHT.
Re-read the entire conversation, and if you shut up you'll realize what I said is true.
The whole point is that you are never alone with something massive except in very few circumstances in this game, and pretty much never once you enter maps.
Map bosses spawn with a pack next to them. Dominus spawns with adds and makes more in every phase of the fight. The whole point and complaint is that groups are just having someone freeze mine everything while someone doublestrikes/concfirestorms/facerolls the boss down with no risk because the monsters that originate the freeze can't die from the mine, because it doesn't do damage.
And for the record, you stated "Most unique bosses do not have allies around them during some or most parts of the fight." That statement is wrong no matter how you try to spin it. I pointed out that most unique bosses start with adds, and the boss will be dead before you kill them using the freeze mine + elemental proliferation (Cheesy) tactic.
Lol. You just missed it again.
SOME OR MOST PARTS OF THE FIGHT.
Re-read the entire conversation, and if you shut up you'll realize what I said is true.
It seems like you are arguing for the sakes of arguing, I have read through this and have no clue what point you are making
Perma freezing the mobs in boss fights is fairly trivial. The only time its not trivial is if you are seriously undergeared/levelled for the fight, in which case, you shouldn't be doing the boss fight in the first case (and even in this case you just have to be more careful)
The whole point is that you are never alone with something massive except in very few circumstances in this game, and pretty much never once you enter maps.
Map bosses spawn with a pack next to them. Dominus spawns with adds and makes more in every phase of the fight. The whole point and complaint is that groups are just having someone freeze mine everything while someone doublestrikes/concfirestorms/facerolls the boss down with no risk because the monsters that originate the freeze can't die from the mine, because it doesn't do damage.
And for the record, you stated "Most unique bosses do not have allies around them during some or most parts of the fight." That statement is wrong no matter how you try to spin it. I pointed out that most unique bosses start with adds, and the boss will be dead before you kill them using the freeze mine + elemental proliferation (Cheesy) tactic.
Lol. You just missed it again.
SOME OR MOST PARTS OF THE FIGHT.
Re-read the entire conversation, and if you shut up you'll realize what I said is true.
It seems like you are arguing for the sakes of arguing, I have read through this and have no clue what point you are making
Perma freezing the mobs in boss fights is fairly trivial. The only time its not trivial is if you are seriously undergeared/levelled for the fight, in which case, you shouldn't be doing the boss fight in the first case (and even in this case you just have to be more careful)
The original post was about Freeze Mine needing no investment in order to permafreeze.
I started off by saying you did require at least some investment and some support for Freeze Mine to even begin permafreezing some creatures. This can vary from not having EP, enemies having high resistances, and a lack of lower hit point creatures and proper supports leaves it weak against harder enemies.
My second post I mis-typed what I meant and was therefor wrong. It is useful most of the time, but there are times that EP does absolutely nothing to help you. The person pointlessly arguing with me still doesn't understand that I'm saying "some or most".
"Some or most" refers to less than half of any given situation. Brutus has absolutely nobody to proliferate from, while Kole has a few, and Dominus almost always has someone around him.
Against Brutus, FM with EP is useless. FM with ADC and CP is viable. Against Kole, EP is the only required support, but FM becomes useless without ADC and CP once all of the lesser enemies are dead.
Gravethought does not understand what I'm saying. Either he just wishes to argue, or he is ignoring part of what I'm saying.
"Most unique bosses do not have allies around them during some or most parts of the fight. This means that Elemental Proliferation does nothing." is what you wrote. It is wrong.
"Very few unique bosses do not have allies around them during some or most parts of the fight. This means that Elemental Proliferation does nothing on these few fights." Here is what you needed to write. Like I said, the majority of bosses in the game have adds with them. The majority of bosses in the game have adds beside them when you begin fighting them. They will be there when you start and when then boss dies, because people using freeze mine have no intention of touching those adds with damage until the boss is DEAD.
Proliferation mechanic is broken, it should proliferate by keeping the defenses of each target, not just proliferate the entire status and its duration. I can't bring myself to believe GGG actually thought that could even work without being abused like that, it was completely obvious. So I guess it's simply a technical shortcut and I hope it will be fixed some day.
"Most unique bosses do not have allies around them during some or most parts of the fight. This means that Elemental Proliferation does nothing." is what you wrote. It is wrong.
"Very few unique bosses do not have allies around them during some or most parts of the fight. This means that Elemental Proliferation does nothing on these few fights." Here is what you needed to write. Like I said, the majority of bosses in the game have adds with them. The majority of bosses in the game have adds beside them when you begin fighting them. They will be there when you start and when then boss dies, because people using freeze mine have no intention of touching those adds with damage until the boss is DEAD.
No, actually the way I phrased it is correct.
Brutus and the Vaal Oversoul are prime examples of when you have nothing around them. In most parties, the summons barely last a moment because players are consuming flask charges, are culling for drops, and so on. This means that you have nothing to proliferate to Vaal.
As to bosses like Merveil, Piety, and Kole, they only have creatures around them during certain parts of the fight. In the case of Merveil, she only has them in the second half, which is also much easier without Freeze Mine. Kole only has a few creatures around him, and if you do any form of AoE they won't last even half of the fight. Piety does her ice form about half of the time, and you don't usually want to get close to that. Even if you do, especially in parties or as a summoner, the good majority or all of the summons that join during the fight are gone. What few are left with Piety must be lead to Piety, which means she can hunt you down in her melee form or shoot you with arrows. Running around = no leeching. Freeze Mine is hurting you, not helping you.
In the case of Dominus, who is the only one I can think of for this, he has minions around him at all times. Very easy to proliferate in this fight.
"Some or most", is applicable.
In fact, it should be changed to just "most".
Last edited by Natharias#4684 on Dec 28, 2013, 3:45:16 PM
