POE: Casual.. Hardcore.. What is the difference?

I recently saw a post by a Divine Supporter, mushioov, that asked: "Why is GGG caving in to casuals' demands?" http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/708222/page/1

After skimming through the 10 pages of discussion, I feel that I should put a thought into this casual and hardcore gaming argument.

To start let me state that this post is long, and those that say Too Long; Didn't Read (TL;DR) should not post a reply in here since all that will serve is to clutter the thread and deter people from reading relevant replies. Also, I will simply post question(s) and my answer(s) as a way to communicate my thoughts. Feel free to constructively answer or comment on anything you like.

1) Would I, or any average gamer with a decent understanding of Path of Exile, label it as a casual game?

Personally, I don't see POE as a casual game. It is definitely not indie anymore. A casual game, in my opinion, is a game that one can simply play and enjoy; it is very much the definition of an indie game. POE, on the other hand, requires more than an average level of dedication and time to enjoy. This is because a decent build with level and gear DOES require a good amount of planning, grinding, and knowledge of the game. Overall, POE requires some level of theorycrafting, albeit a little (more casual) or a lot (more hardcore). POE is not a casual game but it can be played in a casual and/or hardcore manner accordingly to the player's play style.

If someone said he/she is forced to play hardcore or spend tons of hours grinding to compete with others, then I recommend that person to rethink their expectation in gaming and change their play style. If you want to be the best then you have to compete. If you are competing, then you should expect that the more time and effort you put into something, the more you should get out of it. There is no such thing as those who do less get to receive more and those who did more receive the same as those who had done less. If you got less time to play then it is best that you find a playstyle/game that works with the amount of time you have.

2) How can we tell a player is a hardcore or casual gamer?

From the above statement we can see a divergence between casual and hardcore gamers. A casual gamer will most likely go into a game, play it through and through, and enjoy it enough that he/she may continue to find more ways to enjoy the game. A hardcore player most likely was a causal player who enjoyed the game and is looking for ways to further enjoy the game (e.g. more theorycrafting) in a way such that the game is or feels as enjoyable/difficult as possible.

Here we can see that one can label a gamer as casual or hardcore gamer by measuring the passion one has for gaming. Without a doubt, a hardcore gamer has more passion for the game than a casual gamer. Just to be clear, a player who plays in a hardcore league and calls him/herself a hardcore gamer is NOT necessarily a hardcore gamer. It is the individual passion for the game that defines a hardcore gamer. And a hardcore gamer is NOT superior to a casual gamer. It is simply a different play style. GGG developers should know this very well since it is their passion as hardcore gamers themselves that brings about this great game that many of us greatly enjoy. Hence, one should not doubt GGG when they said they made POE with hardcore gamers in mind. But I think it is fair to say that hardcore gamers, at some point, started as casual gamers. It is the game that inspired the casual gamer to become a hardcore gamer.

3) Does the POE needle point toward more casual gameplay with recent balance changes?

Yes and No. Yes because it has made it easier to progress through the game such that casual gamers can enjoy it more. No because the changes simply smooth out the difficulty ramp. That is, the most difficult content is still available to hardcore gamers. Once again, playing in a hardcore league does not make one a hardcore gamer. However, a hardcore league offers the most difficult content of the game and that is why there are more hardcore gamers in hardcore leagues.

Has it changed enough to be labeled as casual? Absolutely not! It is still a game that required some level of dedication, time, and theorycrafting. If you still need proof, check out the character forums for builds posted by so many players.

I do not believe GGG is making the game the way it is because of money. Money is what keeps the game alive and the people who make it possible fed and "properly" rewarded. It is a game built from passion and it continues to evolve through that passion. It is the passion of not just the wonderful people from GGG but also from so many others. These others are none other than those that first opted into the closed beta, open beta, and now release. Those that bought the supporter packs when the game was far from anything other than a possibility of being a great game (remembered the day when your party members teleporting due to syncing issues?). Those that bought the diamond supporter pack and through that inspired great ideas that come in the form of unique items that feel truly unique. And let us not forget those that contributed in every small way such as constructive criticisms and original ideas.

Thank you GGG and all those who enjoy/make this game a wonderful distraction from the tiresome struggles of everyday life.
(~.~)

EDITED: Big THANKS to Charan for editing. Apologize to all those who got a wall of text when first posted.

pragraphs

paragraphs

Anyone who reads your post is hardcore.

Cant be bothered to read ur post, to hc for me.

(~.~)

"

alphatau wrote:

I recently saw a post by a Divine Supporter, mushioov, that said: Why is GGG caving in to casuals' demands? http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/708222/page/1
After skimming through the 10 pages of discussion, I feel that I should put a thought into this casual and hardcore gaming argument.
To start let me state that this post is long, and those that Too Long; Didn't Read should not post a reply in here since all that will serve is fill up the post and deter people from reading relevant replies. Also, I will simply post question(s) and my answer(s) as a way to communicate my thoughts. Feel free to constructively answer or comment on anything you like.


1) Would I, or any average gamer with decent understanding of POE, label POE as a casual game?

Personally, I don't see POE as a casual game. It is definitely not indie anymore. A casual game, in my opinion, is a game that one can simply play and enjoy; it is very much the definition of an Indie game. POE, on the other hand, requires more than an average level of dedication and time to enjoy. This is because a decent build with level and gear DOES require a good amount of planning, grinding, and knowledge of the game. Overall, POE requires some level of theorycrafting albeit a little (more casual) or a lot (more hardcore). POE is not a casual game but it can be played casually and/or hardcore accordingly to the player's playstyle.

If someone said he/she is forced to play hardcore or spend tons of hours grinding to compete with others then I recommend you to rethink your expectation in gaming and change your playstyle. If you want to be the best then you have to compete. If you are competing, then you should expect that the more time and effort you put into something, the more you should get out of it. There is no such thing as those who do less get to receive more and those who did more receive the same as those who had done less. If you got less time to play then it is best that you find a playstyle/game that work with the amount of time you have.


2) How can we tell a player is a hardcore or casual gamer?

From the above answer we can see a divergent between casual and hardcore gamers. A casual gamer will most likely goes into a game, plays it through and through, and enjoys it enough that he/she may continue to find more ways to enjoy the game. A hardcore player is most likely was a causal player who enjoyed the game and is looking for ways to further enjoy the game (e.g. more theorycrafting) in a way such that the game is or feel as enjoyable/difficult as possible.

Here we can see that one can label a gamer as casual or hardcore gamer by measuring the passion one has for gaming. Without a doubt, a hardcore gamer has more passion for the game than a casual gamer. Just to be cleared, a player who plays in hardcore league and call him/herself a hardcore gamer is NOT necessarily a hardcore gamer. It is the individual passion for the game that defines a hardcore gamer .And a hardcore gamer is NOT superior to a casual gamer. It is simply a different play style. GGG developers should know this very well since it is their passion as hardcore gamers that bring about this great game that many of us greatly enjoy. Hence, one should not doubt GGG when they said they made POE with hardcore gamers in mind. But I think it is fair to say that hardcore gamers are, at some point, started as a casual gamer. It is the game that inspired the casual gamer to become hardcore gamer.


3) Does the POE needle points toward more casual gameplay with recent balance changes?

Yes and No. Yes because it has made it easier to progress through the game such that casual gamer can enjoy it better. No because the changes simply smooth out the difficulty ramp. That is, the most difficult contents are still available to hardcore gamers. Once again, playing in hardcore league does not make one a hardcore gamer. However, hardcore league offers the most difficult contents of the game and that is why there are more hardcore gamers in hardcore leagues.

Has it changed enough to be label as casual? Absolutely not! It is still a game that required some level of dedication, time, and theorycrafting. If you still need proof, check out the character forums for builds posted by so many players.

I do not believe GGG is making the game the way it is because of money. Money is what keep the game live and people who make it possible fed and "properly" rewarded. It is a game built from passion and it is continue evolving by the passions. It is the passions of not just the wonderful people from GGG but also from so many others. These others is none other than those that first opted into the closed beta, open beta, and now released. Those that buys the supporter packs when the game is far from anything other than a possibility of being a great game (remembered the day when your party members teleporting due to syncing issues?). Those that buys the diamond supporter pack and through that inspired great ideas that come in the form of unique items that feels truly unique. And let not forget those that contributed in every small ways such as constructive criticisms and original ideas.
Thank you GGG and all those who enjoy/make this game a wonderful distraction from the tiresome struggles of everyday life.
(~.~)

That is a hardcore wall of text. I started to read it but it defeated me...back to standard.

Casual players don't generally have the time or energy to play the end game.

Hardcore players have too much time and energy and devout themselves to being the best they can.

These opinions are just that.

I'm out. Not hardcore enough to read that.