GGG - I really hate trade in this game. Don't you know it brings out the worst of people?

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Shagsbeard wrote:

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Altissimus wrote:

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Shagsbeard wrote:

Don't trade then. Many players don't. It's actually a lot more fun to find your own stuff. The game lasts longer and you feel you have actually played the game rather than pay someone else to play it for you.

I think you're quite limited on how far you can get if you don't trade - either that or you have to over-level every area because your gear will be - if dependent on self-found - lower quality than what might be required. Particular an issue the further through the game you go. Having to use items to get your resistances up in Merc, for example, at the expense of life/mitigation or even dps.

Yes, it can be done....also not fun, though, eh?

Be nice if it wasn't a case of the lesser of two evils: to trade or not to trade.

Not fun? If it wasn't fun I wouldn't be playing it. If you really feel that neither mode of play is fun, why are you here?

Trade isn't fun because of people.

Playing with under-geared kit because you're 100% self-found isn't fun because you struggle massively from Merc onwards (I expect - never actually done this).

Rest of the game is good fun - that's why I'm here.

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Altissimus wrote:

Playing with under-geared kit because you're 100% self-found isn't fun because you struggle massively from Merc onwards (I expect - never actually done this).

Facerolling isn't much fun either. A bit of a challenge goes a long way. And self-found doesn't mean bad gear. Sometimes RNGesus will help you out in times of need!

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GFValkyria wrote:

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Altissimus wrote:

Playing with under-geared kit because you're 100% self-found isn't fun because you struggle massively from Merc onwards (I expect - never actually done this).

Facerolling isn't much fun either. A bit of a challenge goes a long way. And self-found doesn't mean bad gear. Sometimes RNGesus will help you out in times of need!

I'm sure this is great for some people, but it doesn't actually address the issue. saying "don't trade" doesn't solve the issues with trade.

I guess trading isn't for everybody pal.
Link me your shop, show me your items and your prices
and I can tell you what you are doing wrong.

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honeyface wrote:

I guess trading isn't for everybody pal.
Link me your shop, show me your items and your prices
and I can tell you what you are doing wrong.

This isn't about my shop, which frankly hardly has anything good in it anyway and I only put it up about a week ago.

This is about every trade I've ever done in this game, and 90% of them have been me buying, not me selling.

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Altissimus wrote:

Trade is this game is a necessity, but the tools available to achieve it are virtually non-existent.

Spamming trade chat is next to useless - whether you're buying or selling - and although there are some external sites xyz that help, unfortunately they don't come close to addressing the gap.

However, the MAJOR problem is that because there is no clear currency and no clear price for items, trade becomes the worst kind of barter system which, when combined with internet anonymity, just means people are a**holes.

I've probably conducted 30+ trades so far in this game, buying and selling, and I'd say that about 10% of those were a pleasure, and the other 90% involved enormous amounts of bad attitude. I won't continue to play a game that brings that much stress and angst in that frequently - it's just not fun.

Let's be absolutely clear about this: because this is the Interwebnet, people CAN and WILL be a**holes, and that means that a MAJOR part of this game is a barter system with people who have no accountability for their attitudes and actions. As any sociology student will tell you, this does not a pretty picture make.

I know there are some trading changes due for release soon. I just really, really hope that these changes are a lot more than an alternative to spammed trade channels.

Take out the human element. Put in an auction house - or, if you're so against that, some other system that removes the need for human barter. It is not a nice world out there.

Trade chat is useless. Use forum + PoE.xyz.is to trade.

There are a lot of currencies in PoE, and rates for them are established already. That can be confusing for a new player, but after you'll make some research, you can convert between currency types quite easily.
People are assholes because.... they're assholes! So simple. And currency system doesnt matter really. There are no antimonopoly policy in game who will ban for scaming, so what do you expect? Sorry, but most people turn to assholes when there is no punishment for that.

Most of MY trades, though (both buying and selling) dont imply bad attitude. When i buying, whe usual attitude is ignore (AFK, etc), it is annoying when you receive absolutely no answers, of course, but you can manage it, do you?

I dont know why do you meet so much bad attitude there?
Maybe you ask about items in agressive tone. Maybe you contact with people in tradechat. Maybe you make absolutely wrong offers (i did so before i found PoE.xyz.is as a tool to determine prices). Maybe, you dont check if items are verified (though i never got insult because of that). Maybe, you just cant take or give negative answer for whatever reasons. Maybe, you dont read what traders write on the 1-st page of their thread.
Who knows...
The only thing that bothers me, is that it takes too much time to find and get proper items for proper price. Auction House could reduce my time issues, but it would have drawbacks as well....

This probplem... it's a social problem... it cant be solved by game means.

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MortalKombat3 wrote:

This probplem... it's a social problem... it cant be solved by game means.

Well actually, it can. This is what I mean by "take out the human element".

For example:

World of Warcraft has an AH system that allows the seller to offer an item with a buy-out or a minimum bid c/o. The auction expires after a certain time, and costs a small fee to set up.

Results:
The market isn't flooded with rubbish items that no one will buy, because it costs money to put up the auction.
The market isn't flooded with massively overpriced items that no one will buy, because it costs money to put up the auction.
A sensible equilibrium of buy/sale price for items is quickly established, because you can see how much other people are selling their similar item for.
And, if you wish to purchase the item, it's a simple click to do so. There is no human interaction, and no opportunity for the seller (or buyer) to be an ass.

Above is, of course, a game mechanic.

Now, I understand that GGG have expressed an intent to not make available an AH (not sure why; something to do with d3 aversion I believe) - but that doesn't mean that another means that achieves the same end isn't viable.

Either way, trade without the human element would be greatly appreciated by me.

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Altissimus wrote:

Playing with under-geared kit because you're 100% self-found isn't fun because you struggle massively from Merc onwards (I expect - never actually done this).

Definitely not true. I was level 78 before I conducted my first trade, and it wasn't driven by needing something, it was driven by finding a 1h axe that I put on the forums expecting an exalted or two that ended up going for 13.

I took some of that and bought a 5L Marohi. Saved the rest. Haven't made another trade since. Still doing dandy.

Outside of that one axe, I haven't been lucky at all. I just didn't pick a highly gear dependent build for my first character.

Now that I have a ton of gear and a few decent uniques for new characters, I've been steadily rolling those up and playing around with more exotic builds.

What I'm experiencing feels like pretty intentional design.

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Shagsbeard wrote:

Don't trade then. Many players don't. It's actually a lot more fun to find your own stuff. The game lasts longer and you feel you have actually played the game rather than pay someone else to play it for you.

Forget about doing endgame content any time soon then

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Altissimus wrote:

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MortalKombat3 wrote:

This probplem... it's a social problem... it cant be solved by game means.

Well actually, it can. This is what I mean by "take out the human element".

For example:

World of Warcraft has an AH system that allows the seller to offer an item with a buy-out or a minimum bid c/o. The auction expires after a certain time, and costs a small fee to set up.

Results:
The market isn't flooded with rubbish items that no one will buy, because it costs money to put up the auction.
The market isn't flooded with massively overpriced items that no one will buy, because it costs money to put up the auction.
A sensible equilibrium of buy/sale price for items is quickly established, because you can see how much other people are selling their similar item for.
And, if you wish to purchase the item, it's a simple click to do so. There is no human interaction, and no opportunity for the seller (or buyer) to be an ass.

Above is, of course, a game mechanic.

Now, I understand that GGG have expressed an intent to not make available an AH (not sure why; something to do with d3 aversion I believe) - but that doesn't mean that another means that achieves the same end isn't viable.

Either way, trade without the human element would be greatly appreciated by me.

At this point it really doesn't matter if there's a good way to put in an AH or not.

Given that Blizzard, Path of Exile's own 800 lb gorilla and the developer of the very game you referenced in your post, has announced it is abolishing all formal Auction Houses in its game in Q1 of next year, it would be business suicide for GGG to implement one.