Aren't RF builds extremly punished from certain Map Mods?

This kinda goes down to needing map mod reform. Taking away maze and area size was a good start, but I feel there should be some ground rules.

1. There should be no mods that make things literally impossible for players, like blood magic. A CI character can not step foot in a blood magic map and do anything at all. Harder is ok. For this reason I think most of those mods are ok even for a RF build. An RF build can lean on another skill to clear the map if necessary. A CI character can't do anything to clear a blood magic map.

2. There needs to be less redundancy in map mods. Why do we have three mods that punish mana regeneration, no regen and half recovery and blood magic? Why isn't there a no leech map mod?

3. "Good" Map mods need to go away. Pack size, magic/rare monsters......looking at you. However, the map mods that trash your overall quantity need to be gone as well.....sea witches.

4. Map mods should take into consideration combos. Added cold? Not sooooo bad. Added cold with minus max? Holy shit RIIIIIP.

I would think Shocked Ground and Added Damage as Lightning are both very scary mods for RF builds. Don't shock stacks increase your self-RF damage?

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shroudb wrote:

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Artanthos wrote:

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RaGoNXIII wrote:

If you want to use RF, you have to build around it with a lot of life regen and high fire resistance, so without it you lose like half of your damage. These mods simply don't allow you to run it:

Most builds have mods that are difficult or impossible to play.

Try doing Blood Magic with a CI build.

apart from BM being an idiotic mod for maps since ti restricts a ton of builds, it is still only a single mod vs all the -regen ones -max resist +burn damage etc that resticts RF.

That's only one example. There are tons of mods which restrict tons of different builds. Chain murders summoners and totem users, for eg. + resistance mods make one-element spellcasters really unhappy. Hexproof - enough said. ele/phys reflect mods obviously hurt a lot of builds. 'Monsters cannot be stunned' is a direct counter to some builds as well. Ele equilibrum, chaos dmg per second, players have ele weakness, temporal chains, etc etc...

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TheTenthDoc wrote:

I would think Shocked Ground and Added Damage as Lightning are both very scary mods for RF builds. Don't shock stacks increase your self-RF damage?

They do, but not nearly as bad as the other ones. They are both things you can get around with skilled play.

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Saffell wrote:

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TheTenthDoc wrote:

I would think Shocked Ground and Added Damage as Lightning are both very scary mods for RF builds. Don't shock stacks increase your self-RF damage?

They do, but not nearly as bad as the other ones. They are both things you can get around with skilled play.

Thats it. All "negative" mods should be like those, scary mods that if you make a mistake you get punished. Tell me how I can run these maps without turning off RF (the main purpose of my build):



I'm not able to run 8 maps out of 12 after some alch/chaos process looking for decent quantity. There isn't any other build that get punished that much from a lot of common affixes. And is not like I'm doing 50k DPS with RF, I'm just sitting at 10k with level 19 gems, going down to 6k without it.

What I'll do with those maps? Probably run them with my lvl79 LA ranger or wait until I get level 20 on EK so at least I can make decent damage turning off RF. Seems nice, I'll play 60% of my mapping experience with a build that could be done with 50 skill points XD!

I also run RF and agree that many mods make it unwise to use. However I just run those maps without RF or I run them on my summoner. As a solo player the only way to run all mods is as suggested by switching characters. Or run in a group.

this is what map mods are for no? There is a build out there that will be buggered by almost every hard mod and a build that can run it without even noticing. Thats the design surely? There are challenges beyond almost every character, but also a lot of things strong character A can do that strong character B cant, and vice versa. Taking away map mods that completely shut down certain builds would be awful, that would ruin the whole dynamic of it.


My main character atm is a ci melee witch, so running a bloodmagic map is out of the question obviously. However, with nearly 18k splashed phys crits Id feel happy walking into a phys reflect + ele reflect + vulnerability + -max + 100% extra damage as any element map and attacking packs with phys reflect aura, no problem. If I get lightning thorns girls + puncture ghouls in there though then it will be a really, really harsh map. Thats the rng, thats the balance of builds that can piss over a string of mods/mobs which would completely destroy another character and but be unable to deal with other situations. Would I fight dominus in a 74/78 map with exploding mobs that can knock off half my es pool and chain bang me 3 or 4 times in a second while I cant even see them on my screen cause im desynced as a solo melee? Hell no. Would I try and fight those death vibrators in the new olmec dildo map? dont be silly, with a ci melee? Certainly not with my ci melee Ill tell you that for sure.


There are builds that can squash it down to just 1 or 2 affixes they will not run. Most strong builds have 1 or 2 that are no go ever, and then a bunch of situation ones that can turn an easy map into something silly, like vuln, chain, double boss, extra damage as ele, extra boss damage labrynth, fuck risking that for a lot of folks. There are many builds that are far more limited by what they can do. You know these mods before you make the build, you know what you are up against and should know essentially what you are getting yourself into. If you want to make a build that can do as many map mods as possible then you need to plan a build that can deal with map mods, they cant just nerf map mods so that every build can deal with all of them, I dont see it as practical or desirable. If every build can do everything then it makes planning and finding strong builds pointless.


What do I do with a map my ci melee cant run? I run it with my ek marauder.

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Artanthos wrote:

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RaGoNXIII wrote:

If you want to use RF, you have to build around it with a lot of life regen and high fire resistance, so without it you lose like half of your damage. These mods simply don't allow you to run it:

Most builds have mods that are difficult or impossible to play.

Try doing Blood Magic with a CI build.

Spectral Throw and Split Arrow facerolls everything except physical reflect and physical reflect is only a problem if you go crit.

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mazul wrote:

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Artanthos wrote:

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RaGoNXIII wrote:

If you want to use RF, you have to build around it with a lot of life regen and high fire resistance, so without it you lose like half of your damage. These mods simply don't allow you to run it:

Most builds have mods that are difficult or impossible to play.

Try doing Blood Magic with a CI build.

Spectral Throw and Split Arrow facerolls everything except physical reflect and physical reflect is only a problem if you go crit.

You have no idea what you're talking about.

Phys reflect punishes hard hitters pretty hard. My heavy striker kills herself in like 15 hits on single reflect. That's with 9k armor.

I have to unlink leap slam in those maps because if I keep it linked and jump into a pack I might die. In pretty much one shot.

PS how's vulnerability related to this discussion? I thought it only increased physical damage taken?

The more specialized the build, the more deadly the kryptonite.

I don't see anything wrong with that.