GGG why no flask replenish between domi forms?

20 seconds to kill is exceptionally fast for an average player. It is a speed that only very well-geared characters could achieve. No player arriving there for the first time in merciless would have the high-end gear (or skill!) needed for a 20s kill time. I could definitely understand GGG wanting to slow down players like that so they don't get as much of an advantage over regular players.

As you say, though, 20 seconds is quite slow compared to high-end dominus farmers, and the no-flask-recharge hurts the 20s farmers much more than the 7s farmers, since they need to use half as many flask charges at most. So I think that is a good point GGG should take into consideration when balancing dominus.

Really, though, they should be most concerned with balancing it for people fighting dominus as part of the storyline. How would getting flask charges (vs not getting flask charges) affect the gameplay for them? Is the fact that they need to manage their flask charges better a good addition to the final boss? etc...
Balance concerns for farmers need to come second to balance concerns for regular players, IMO.

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Out of interest - why would someone need their topaz flasks refilled for the 2nd form?

Honestly, it's a non-issue.

Merveil is the only act end fight with the flask refill between phases. The other fights, Piety included, all provide trash mobs that, as far as I can tell, are there to let you recharge your flasks with ease. It's almost as if it were designed in as part of the "scripting" of these act end bosses, analogous to a number of fight mechanics in MMO's. You know, like the developers might actually have had a plan and executed it to achieve whatever goal(s) they had in mind for the game.

You get the flask recharge after first form Merveil because there is no other way to gain charge through the first phase. If anything, an equally valid argument could be made that players should not have to account for an inability to recharge flasks DURING Merveil phase 1, and there should be some mechanism to gain insta-fill after a given period of time, even if you have not forced the transition.

The OP's personal, individual decisions and choices on how he approaches the content are at the root of the argument. You CAN enter the Dominus transition with full flasks, you CHOOSE not to and then complain about the consequence of that decision.

I fail to see the developer's responsibility in this, unless you want to hold them accountable for giving you a choice and letting you exercise your free will.


We are also never going to come to common ground on what individual players may or may not see as "acceptable" clear speeds for certain content and playstyles, how one defines "farming", and a whole other slew of issues related to (yeah, I am going to say it again) INDIVIDUAL PLAYER CHOICES. In the end, at the distilled heart of the original post, all this thread turns out to be is a giant QQ over "I haz 0 falsk, why?"

good question sir , but its actually the granite i need refilled , dommi has minions , and while they dont do a ton of damage , i need my hp full at all times to face tank the touch of god and the ghost waves.
thus i need granite to remove the minions from the equations

if they explode or hit me enough for either of those spell to kill me , i iz sad panda.

also think of it this way , you jsut beat dominus and hes about to give epic speech , and have cool transform, you gona want to be there for that , .. but oh shit no pots , well i guess ill have to port out and miss his turn into tentacle lobster animation .

sad panda again.

it is not a huge deal , regardless , and i would bet money ggg wont ever change it.

it was just something that caught my interest

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Saltychipmunk wrote:

good question sir , but its actually the granite i need refilled , dommi has minions , and while they dont do a ton of damage , i need my hp full at all times to face tank the touch of god and the ghost waves.
thus i need granite to remove the minions from the equations

if they explode or hit me enough for either of those spell to kill me , i iz sad panda.

also think of it this way , you jsut beat dominus and hes about to give epic speech , and have cool transform, you gona want to be there for that , .. but oh shit no pots , well i guess ill have to port out and miss his turn into tentacle lobster animation .

sad panda again.

You choose to facetank his massive attacks in first form, using flasks to allow for that. Choice.

Due to the scripted nature of the fight (and this has already been brought up once in this thread), based on where on the map you deplete first form HP to zero, you can open a portal and go to town to refresh, then return to the map, walk over to the "fallen" Dominus, and initiate the transition.

Story time, kids: The other day I decided to progress a Nemesis toon through normal Dominus. Now, I play on a machine that sports 7 yr old tech, and the Dominus fight is known to create issues for me from time to time (I've documented one account on the boards), so I have to play the fight in ways to reduce some of the load on my machine. I had one scary moment when the shock witch managed to get a totem right under me for near insta double shock stack at the same time a dragon head hit me and the cycloner was close. The demons I managed to faceroll and then came Big D. I, true to my playstyle, manually avoided the telegraphed attacks and worked my damage application when I could, safely working him down. As soon as he hit 0 HP and the server told my client to load the transition/final phase map my client froze.

Can't recall whether I Alt+F4'd or if the client crashed to desktop, but I madly rebooted the game, waited the eternity of 90 seconds that it takes for my machine to load it, breathed a sigh when my toon was still in Nemesis. I was then surprised to find, in the still server side loaded Upper Scepter and Final fight area into which my toon loaded, Dominus, ready to tell me that "This world is just an illusion, exile."

Moral of the story, you can port town and not miss any of the scripted content, as if by design...

it is a perfectly consistent game mechanic: when a monster dies, it provides flask recharges. when a monster only changes it's form, no recharges of course.

Merveil dies (the second form is not Merveil, but her daughter).

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fn2 wrote:

it is a perfectly consistent game mechanic: when a monster dies, it provides flask recharges. when a monster only changes it's form, no recharges of course.

Merveil dies (the second form is not Merveil, but her daughter).

Im curious about that ,I didn't know that was the case. i thought both were merveil and the first form was just an illusion as seen by how the treasure turns to scrap when the form is broken.

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fn2 wrote:

it is a perfectly consistent game mechanic: when a monster dies, it provides flask recharges. when a monster only changes it's form, no recharges of course.

Merveil dies (the second form is not Merveil, but her daughter).

This is semantics and have no value to this discussion.

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Spysong192 wrote:

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fn2 wrote:

it is a perfectly consistent game mechanic: when a monster dies, it provides flask recharges. when a monster only changes it's form, no recharges of course.

Merveil dies (the second form is not Merveil, but her daughter).

This is semantics and have no value to this discussion.

This game is all about semantics.

just kill him.. no need for flask refill

Vaal doesn't give charges, save for killing his spawns but no one seems to remember that. He's basically Vaal 2.0

Also the reason you get flask charges from Merviel is because you kill her first form. As in, she reaches 0 health. First form Dominus acts just like when you first meet Piety.

Last time I checked you gotta kill an enemy to gain flask charges.