Minions/Spectres Being STUPID

Thing is they are scaled assuming they need YOU to target for them and not very intelligent so they do good range damage to the screen.

The behavior of minions is by design - if you can summon minions and then simply run around the map with the minions attacking whatever is within range without you doing anything at all - is not intended.

Instead - you typically need to direct minion attacks with some sort of other skill. Or, with skeletons/raging spirits - you need to frequently resummon as the minions expire/die.

What is absolutely unintended is the behavior your desire - summon minions that will attack forever unless killed and let them intelligently attack any target within range - basically all you need to do if this behavior were implemented is to summon your minions, and then stand around while your minions kill stuff - stay out of range of attacks - or occasionally dodge when necessary. This would be a zero-skill, low-cost, game-crushing build, eliminating skill as a requirement for rapid advancement.
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That said - there are work arounds if you desire this behavior - I haven't tried totems - but posters claim this works.

Another work-around is to use SRS - other minions will attack whatever your raging spirits attack.
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There's nothing wrong with the current behavior of minions - in fact, the behavior is by design.

Summoner - especially spectres - is one of the most powerful builds in the game at the moment - capable of clearing all content with little investment. IMO, certain aspects of summoner builds are too powerful - e.g., bone offering essentially giving you 75% attack block and likely 75% spell block for very little investment - bone offering makes you nearly invulnerable.
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TL/DR - Summoners are extremely powerful as is - by design, minions are passive, only attacking what you attack.

However, work arounds exist - probably these need to be nerfed.

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hankinsohl wrote:

The behavior of minions is by design - if you can summon minions and then simply run around the map with the minions attacking whatever is within range without you doing anything at all - is not intended.

[...]

However, work arounds exist - probably these need to be nerfed.

If you design something and people are trying to find ways around your design because it is annoying to use, I have bad news - your design may be flawed.

You can claim all you want that it works by design, but if people don't like it, it means literally nothing.

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Perq wrote:

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hankinsohl wrote:

The behavior of minions is by design - if you can summon minions and then simply run around the map with the minions attacking whatever is within range without you doing anything at all - is not intended.

[...]

However, work arounds exist - probably these need to be nerfed.

If you design something and people are trying to find ways around your design because it is annoying to use, I have bad news - your design may be flawed.

Not so - if minions magically attacked anything close by (easy to implement - after-all, raging spirits already do this) - just roll necromancer/summon-spectre. Zero skill necessary.

If you think this isn't by design, given that raging spirits already do this - well - you pretty much think that GGG programmers/

Steps:
1) Summon powerful spectres;
2) Enter map and run towards mobs - maybe hit bone offering occasionally.

That's it - you clear all content.

Is this the sort of game you want?

And by the way - this sort of gameplay may already be available - use some AOE totem skill (I haven't tried this personally but apparently it works). It's a bit worse than 1-2 above (you need to summon the totem and you need to resummon the totem if it dies) - but it's very close - and is a bug IMO.
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The current behavior of minions is an intentional game-balance design decision intended to force an active playstyle for summoners and intended to bring summoners into parity with other skills that require active casting/attacking/targeting/resummoning (totems are balanced with reduced damage and the need to resummon totems when they die - so if you want a totally passive play-style, consider totems).

If what you are describing would be true, everyone and their dog would be rolling Summon Skeletons with extended duration to the max. With enough dedication you can reach ~2-3 minutes, I think.

This, of course, isn't the case because you're missing every aspect of the game possible.

Lets begin with simple stuff: you have to enter arenas, you have to gather items. Lets not even bother with stuff like server doesn't even simulate things if you are not nearby. Strongboxes? Masters? Abysses? Essences? Lab?

And if you think that summoners are so easy to play, go and roll one. I guarantee you will change your tone quickly.

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Perq wrote:

"

hankinsohl wrote:

The behavior of minions is by design - if you can summon minions and then simply run around the map with the minions attacking whatever is within range without you doing anything at all - is not intended.

[...]

However, work arounds exist - probably these need to be nerfed.

If you design something and people are trying to find ways around your design because it is annoying to use, I have bad news - your design may be flawed.

You can claim all you want that it works by design, but if people don't like it, it means literally nothing.

Options We need options!

What I would like is the option to change the behaviour in the same way golemancers can with Primordial Might.
No need to make the solution any more complex then that.

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Perq wrote:

If what you are describing would be true, everyone and their dog would be rolling Summon Skeletons with extended duration to the max. With enough dedication you can reach ~2-3 minutes, I think.

This, of course, isn't the case because you're missing every aspect of the game possible.

Lets begin with simple stuff: you have to enter arenas, you have to gather items. Lets not even bother with stuff like server doesn't even simulate things if you are not nearby. Strongboxes? Masters? Abysses? Essences?

And if you think that summoners are so easy to play, go and roll one. I guarantee you will change your tone quickly.

1) I'm a summoner.
2) Skeletons don't do great damage and frequently die - they need to be resummoned so often that the skill isn't great;
3) Spectres are nearly immortal, and they do massive damage.

You seem to want Spectres to retain immortality and to retain massive damage. On top of that you want them to intelligently attack targets.

Again, here's the steps required to play intellegent Spectre attack build:
1) Summon spectres;
2) Enter map. Run towards mobs. Occasionally dodge. Cast bone offering when it goes down.

This sort of build is obviously broken.

Hell, the current Spectre implementation is broken (a lot of it due to bone offering).
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Once more - the current behavior of Spectres is by-design - it won't be changed. It's an intentional game-balance decision.

How about rebalance broken specters instead? Make them less powerful and actually pleasant to use. Noice?

By the way, I'm Summon Skeleton Warrior player. Damage wise they are quite good, actually. They have dozen of other problems, tho. One of them is their incredibly dumb AI and the fact they stop once in a while to consider time and space continuum... or something.

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Perq wrote:

How about rebalance broken specters instead? Make them less powerful and actually pleasant to use. Noice?

By the way, I'm Summon Skeleton Warrior player. Damage wise they are quite good, actually. They have dozen of other problems, tho. One of them is their incredibly dumb AI and the fact they stop once in a while to consider time and space continuum... or something.

That design is possible for sure - but it assumes that the current spectre design isn't enjoyable or that nerfing spectre damage in return for intelligent AI is desirable - that's not necessarily true. Spectres as is are fine IMO, and are fun to play - the popularity of summoners attests to this - bone offering needs to be nerfed though.
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I'm a very rare build atm though - I'm using Spectres/SRS - with zombies as meat shields. It's pretty broken - spectres will attack whatever the raging spirits attack. Zombies occupy mobs reducing incomming damage. And on top of that I have MOM and 75% attack/71% spell block with bone offering.

Massive damage - massive defense - playstyle is however active (which I like) if you want to keep raging spirits up.
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Kudos to you for trying to be primariy skeletons - IMO summon skeletons needs some work to be competitive with other builds - at least, I haven't seen any top tier skeleton builds posted to date.

Skeleton life/damage/whatever seems to need a buff.

This conclusion is based just on what I've read - I haven't tried to roll a skeleton-based build myself and have never played such a build.

That is hardly a rare summoner build. Specters are actually the most common one atm, afaik.

Also, last time I checked minions were attacking whatever you pointed them to attack, whenever you were using SRS, spells or even default attack. But, the moment you move, they get new orders to follow you, canceling the previous order.

Oh, and by the way - specters/zombies cannot move too far away from you, because they will be ported back to you.