Armor Mitigation Chart

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QcRevo wrote:

Reducing a 4000 damage hit by 571 doesn't provide protection against one hit kills? I don't see the logic in that statement.

Anyway, attacks that can do that type of damage are mostly slow and predictable... even without kiting, it's simple enough to use a granite flask, which increases armour to 14000 with the increased armour modifier, without counting the effect on starting armour and the effect of other sources of increased armour on the flask which would take the amount well over the 16000 figure you put in your table.

8000 armour in end-game doesn't seem to point to a very big investement in armour.

4000 damage hits don't exist.

Monsters deal stepwise dmage not a full spectrum.

Trash at max level ~800 Damage base
Non Trash does 1200-2k depending on mods
Bosses Deal 2-4k, with some bosses having base dmaage above 5k (HELLO VAAL AND KOLE)

Now, investing heavily in armour works, but it requires taht investment and not everyone does so.

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Saltychipmunk wrote:

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SkyCore wrote:

So as we go left to right we increase armor. As we go down we increase the damage dealt. The values listed are the absolute reduction in damage.
The exact formula is: Armour / 12 * Raw Damage / (Raw Damage + Armour / 12)
See http://pathofexile.gamepedia.com/Armour for more details.

____ _250 _500 1000 _2000 _4000 _8000 16000 32000 64000
_250 19.2 35.7 62.5 100.0 142.9 181.8 210.5 228.6 238.8
_500 20.0 38.5 71.4 125.0 200.0 285.7 363.6 421.1 457.1
1000 20.4 40.0 76.9 142.9 250.0 400.0 571.4 727.3 842.1
2000 20.6 40.8 80.0 153.8 285.7 500.0 800.0 1142.9 1454.5
4000 20.7 41.2 81.6 160.0 307.7 571.4 1000.0 1600.0 2285.7
8000 20.8 41.5 82.5 163.3 320.0 615.4 1142.9 2000.0 3200.0

Notice that having 8k armor only reduces a 4k hit by 571. Hardly protection from Getting one shot.

interesting read. but you need to factor some other things that most people would have when taking heavy hits.


lets go with an average of 5 endurance charges
then get an iron skin granite 90% increased armor + 3000 armor , usually this brings people to 15000 - 25000 armor

and then there is enfeeble which we can say reduces the physical attack by 25%


anyway other people have done the math fo that stuff already.

point being armor is not meant for single target heavy hits , it never will be , this is why armor on gear is almost pointless and is usually the last of the good stats you look for in gear behind resistances and flat life or es , armor is for the small stuff so the many thousands of small hits dont add up to something. that is what armor is

my normal armor is only 4k which is nothing at level 76 but with 5 endurance charges it is more than enough for most small time monsters.

if you want to face tank the big stuff , then you use the more static and universal things to consistently chip away from the lump damage until it is something manageable

most people dont have 5 ECharges. Enfeeble doesn't reduce bosses dmg by 25%. Most people don't have 90% mod on granite.
Although, it's not entirely your fault for assuming enfeeble doing what you think it's doing. It's one of those GGGs 'hardcore' hidden features that they addressed in patch notes than avoided to put information on the gem description. Similar to what they do to armor rating. As we can see in this thread, some people still think armor is flat reduction and will go that extra mile to acquire 2000 armor chest for 30 exalts over 1500 armor chest for 3 exalts because of it.

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4000 damage hits don't exist.

Monsters deal stepwise dmage not a full spectrum.

Trash at max level ~800 Damage base
Non Trash does 1200-2k depending on mods
Bosses Deal 2-4k, with some bosses having base dmaage above 5k (HELLO VAAL AND KOLE)

make up your mind. :)

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Autocthon wrote:

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QcRevo wrote:

Reducing a 4000 damage hit by 571 doesn't provide protection against one hit kills? I don't see the logic in that statement.

Anyway, attacks that can do that type of damage are mostly slow and predictable... even without kiting, it's simple enough to use a granite flask, which increases armour to 14000 with the increased armour modifier, without counting the effect on starting armour and the effect of other sources of increased armour on the flask which would take the amount well over the 16000 figure you put in your table.

8000 armour in end-game doesn't seem to point to a very big investement in armour.

4000 damage hits don't exist.

Monsters deal stepwise dmage not a full spectrum.

Trash at max level ~800 Damage base
Non Trash does 1200-2k depending on mods
Bosses Deal 2-4k, with some bosses having base dmaage above 5k (HELLO VAAL AND KOLE)

Now, investing heavily in armour works, but it requires taht investment and not everyone does so.

I used the number that OP gave, which is especially high indeed.

You're not meant to get huge benefits from something without investing in it. To further show that 8000 is a very low number to aim for if armour is something one wants to consider, I got an incredibly conservative number.

I chose the second best strength piece for defensive slots without considering shields, rings and amulets, gave them 20% quality (easy to get), the lowest flat armour amount of the second best mod of that type, same for % increased armour, and left out hybrid bonuses. I considered 100% increased armour from the skill tree. The ending result is 5858,58. That means using a lvl 10 determination without effect bonuses takes armour to 8260,5978.

tl;dr A character using armour as defence is going to have way more than 8000, so the numbers chosen aren't a valid critic of armour as a defence choice.

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QcRevo wrote:

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Autocthon wrote:

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QcRevo wrote:

Reducing a 4000 damage hit by 571 doesn't provide protection against one hit kills? I don't see the logic in that statement.

Anyway, attacks that can do that type of damage are mostly slow and predictable... even without kiting, it's simple enough to use a granite flask, which increases armour to 14000 with the increased armour modifier, without counting the effect on starting armour and the effect of other sources of increased armour on the flask which would take the amount well over the 16000 figure you put in your table.

8000 armour in end-game doesn't seem to point to a very big investement in armour.

4000 damage hits don't exist.

Monsters deal stepwise dmage not a full spectrum.

Trash at max level ~800 Damage base
Non Trash does 1200-2k depending on mods
Bosses Deal 2-4k, with some bosses having base dmaage above 5k (HELLO VAAL AND KOLE)

Now, investing heavily in armour works, but it requires taht investment and not everyone does so.

I used the number that OP gave, which is especially high indeed.

You're not meant to get huge benefits from something without investing in it. To further show that 8000 is a very low number to aim for if armour is something one wants to consider, I got an incredibly conservative number.

I chose the second best strength piece for defensive slots without considering shields, rings and amulets, gave them 20% quality (easy to get), the lowest flat armour amount of the second best mod of that type, same for % increased armour, and left out hybrid bonuses. I considered 100% increased armour from the skill tree. The ending result is 5858,58. That means using a lvl 10 determination without effect bonuses takes armour to 8260,5978.

tl;dr A character using armour as defence is going to have way more than 8000, so the numbers chosen aren't a valid critic of armour as a defence choice.

But the DR still doesn't become especially meaningful against large hits until you've broken the 20k armour barrier (at which point you have something like 35% DR against a 4k hit, hope you have more than 3k life, though you probably do now). Now focusing entirely on making your armoru value big has oppurtunity cost (if you want 20k base armour you're investing at least +100% in armour nodes, if you want more than that well...)

Generally it's easier to just consider Armour as flat DR against exceptionally large hits. At that point every 12000 armou is +1000 max HP.

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QcRevo wrote:

I used the number that OP gave, which is especially high indeed.

You're not meant to get huge benefits from something without investing in it. To further show that 8000 is a very low number to aim for if armour is something one wants to consider, I got an incredibly conservative number.

I chose the second best strength piece for defensive slots without considering shields, rings and amulets, gave them 20% quality (easy to get), the lowest flat armour amount of the second best mod of that type, same for % increased armour, and left out hybrid bonuses. I considered 100% increased armour from the skill tree. The ending result is 5858,58. That means using a lvl 10 determination without effect bonuses takes armour to 8260,5978.

tl;dr A character using armour as defence is going to have way more than 8000, so the numbers chosen aren't a valid critic of armour as a defence choice.

First off i wasnt attempting to launch some form of attack against those who use armor, nor did i ever suggest that heavy investment into armor wouldnt be without merit. My goal was to inform the large influx of new players about armor and give some perspective on what the values mean.
If i were going to attack armor i would shown how investments in armor nodes would be better spent by instead taking life nodes. In your example for instance, you suggested that +100% armor was a minor thing. As we look at the skill tree we can say that it would take a minimum of 6 skills, but the more likely scenario would be that it takes 10 as you have to traverse the tree to get to them and the noteables are almost always only available at the end of a cluster. Those 10 points ended up granting you 2929.29 armour. With your given example, not having picked these armor nodes would result in increased damage from a 4k hit totalling 174.8(392.4-217.6). If you were to instead take those same 10 skill points and invest in life nodes you could conservatively say you would gain an extra 800 life. Also you mention running determination as if its not a major tax on your resources. 60% mana reservation is a big deal. That mana could be used for much more valuable things. You also mention having added armor mods on every single piece of gear, which is not something to be taken for granted. Any good player will rate life and resist far above additional armor and to assume you will have the perfectly crafted piece of gear and call it 'conservative' is stretching the bounds of truth into outright deception or ignorance.

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vaiNe_ wrote:

Those numbers must be off, as 8k armor gives what, 40%+ damage reduction? How does that equate to 571 damage reduced with a 4k damage hit?

massive lol

Armor is a very poor stat to me. Armor only helps you not get wrecked by little mobs, which is nice I guess, but in my opinion, an evasion character with a huge life pool feels just as tanky, because they get hit for the same.

My mara gets creamed by map bosses, and takes the same damn hits my shadow does, but my shadow actually dodges or blocks 75% of them, and therefore leeches back up.

I think evasion is a bit underrated. If you have a very large health pool to cover the few hits you do take, then its very strong.

Like my shadow. He has 40% evasion, 40% acrobatics, and 25% block. Now, I know evasion has some wonky mechanics and isn't completely dodge, but with those numbers heres my chance of actually getting hit.

Evasion: .6
Acro: .6
Block: .75
3 Fail: 0.27

Chance to not get hit: .73 or 73%

Then, thanks to cheese skills like enduring cry/enfeeble/molten shell on Cast on Damage taken, I can literally just jump into anything and leech back up with claws, and face tank every boss.

While my mara is getting his face pounded in, and his only defense is life leech and a huge health pool.

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SkyCore wrote:

First off i wasnt attempting to launch some form of attack against those who use armor, nor did i ever suggest that heavy investment into armor wouldnt be without merit. My goal was to inform the large influx of new players about armor and give some perspective on what the values mean.

Yes, and I politely disagree with your interpretation.

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SkyCore wrote:

If i were going to attack armor i would shown how investments in armor nodes would be better spent by instead taking life nodes. In your example for instance, you suggested that +100% armor was a minor thing. As we look at the skill tree we can say that it would take a minimum of 6 skills, but the more likely scenario would be that it takes 10 as you have to traverse the tree to get to them and the noteables are almost always only available at the end of a cluster. Those 10 points ended up granting you 2929.29 armour. With your given example, not having picked these armor nodes would result in increased damage from a 4k hit totalling 174.8(392.4-217.6). If you were to instead take those same 10 skill points and invest in life nodes you could conservatively say you would gain an extra 800 life.

With a 1600 base life amount (which is optimistic, that's a level 70 character with perfect life rolls on equipment, Oak on Normal and 190 strength, could have done mistakes I guess), 800 life represents 53,3% increased life, I don't belive it's realistic on most builds to expect that in ~10 points considering (on hardcore anyway, it's the mindset I have) that you will already have the most efficient life nodes you could get. That's also not taking into account armour has increased marginal benefits (on survivability) from life (and vice-versa), as a big life pool can take more damage to apply armour to.

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SkyCore wrote:

Also you mention running determination as if its not a major tax on your resources. 60% mana reservation is a big deal. That mana could be used for much more valuable things.

It was but a way to increase the armour total. For someone who wishes to use armour, it is a natural fit. The only defensive aura I could see as «much more valuable» is a purity gem for some niche builds (for the + to maximum resistance). And if a defensive aura is out of the question, and you don't want to invest into defenses on the skill tree, you simply shouldn't get good defences. That's what choices imply. Pick your cake.

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SkyCore wrote:

You also mention having added armor mods on every single piece of gear, which is not something to be taken for granted. Any good player will rate life and resist far above additional armor and to assume you will have the perfectly crafted piece of gear and call it 'conservative' is stretching the bounds of truth into outright deception or ignorance.

Like I clearly indicated, the pieces were very far from perfect. They were not the best base item, not the best mod range, not at the best part of the given range (it was the worst value actually), armour/recovery mods were left apart entirely and there was no shield (and no armour from belt and amulet).

yeah if a player going to bother seriously investing in armor . then

iron skin granite
and determination
and at-least 3 ed charges as well if not 4 from oak.

these are all givens.

if your granite doesn't have iron skin , then what the hell are you as a player doing
?

Bump for the noobs brought in by the expansion hype.