Weapon types balance

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Mark_GGG wrote:

While that's true I found dual wands to be a fun build for the unreleased dex/int class. Wands don't have to be for casters only, they can be dual-wieldable bows with better support fr elemental damage through passives.

There is at least some advantage I think to casters taking two wands, since I think some of the the more spell-like "+1 to level of XXX skill gems socketed in this item" mods are only for wands. But that may no longer be the case, I don't always keep track of such things.

i found a low level shield with +1 lightning skill gems socketed in this item in the hardcore ladder race, so it doesnt seem this is the case anymore

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Mark_GGG wrote:

While that's true I found dual wands to be a fun build for the unreleased dex/int class. Wands don't have to be for casters only, they can be dual-wieldable bows with better support fr elemental damage through passives.

There is at least some advantage I think to casters taking two wands, since I think some of the the more spell-like "+1 to level of XXX skill gems socketed in this item" mods are only for wands. But that may no longer be the case, I don't always keep track of such things.

Well i think you should release the last class so we can find out for ourselves too :)

I asked about this one of the beta polls from last week.
http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/5060/

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tpapp157 wrote:

I asked about this one of the beta polls from last week.
http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/5060/

Amusingly, I defended dual wield in that thread. That was before I knew how cleave worked (and before Mark laboriously pointed out to me that base DW was the issue, not cleave).

DW is underpowered for sure.
Like aimlessgun said.
It's nice on lower lvls but as soon as you get some more IAS (from items or frenzy charges) 2H start to outclass DW.
Like around 1.7-1.9 APS.
Anything more with 2H is clearly better then any kind of DW later on.

First problem are skills favoring 2H.
Second one is mana leech/refill rate of pots that sucks with DW.
Third one is ability to stunlock mobs -> killing speed and players survivability.
Fourth one is range.

Skills are the key imo
They should work differently with DW than with 2H.
Cleave is dealing dmg on 180 deg arc with 1H/2H -> make it 360 deg with DW and so on.
It would demand some work with animation though.
Of course some new dedicated to DW active skills are needed and will be appreciated but I guess situation could be improved by what I wrote above and by adding some melee support gems.
Ranged chars got multiple projectiles so why not add multiple attacks to boost dual strike/double strike or even flicker?
Then it would be something like D2 pally zeal.
Nice way to deal with few or several mobs at once.
Maybe even make it work with cleave (2 or 3 times 180 deg instead of once) or sweep.
And make it impossible to interrupt by mobs hits (and stop by a player as a trade off).

Also positive side effect of such changes will be character development as he gets to the later stages of the game.
It's pretty much non-existent now.
Players attacks looks virtually the same on 15 lvl (say double strike) and on 45 lvl (double strike with frenzy charges).
Only difference is attack speed, visually nothing changes.

1H + shield will be PVP choice like always, so even if it will be a bit underpowered in (SC) PVE in terms of dps there wouldn't be much problem.

I'm gonna add that the lack of sockets/modifiers really does hurt the 2H'ers later on in the game.

In late Ruthless-Merciless with my 2H Marauder, I always re-rolled and farmed and re-rolled till I had pretty beastly mods on all my crafted gear, and I really needed it.

IMO, 2H weapons should have 3-6 sockets, and not MORE modifiers necessarily (would be a clutter with 7+ mods on a rare), but maybe stronger ones.

I found it confusing whether or not the "One Handed Increased Accuracy" applied while I was dual wielding. Maybe you could clarify if it applies or not.

I'm going to put this back on GGG a bit.

GGG should have a clear list of weapon style goals, and what advantages they wish each style to have.

These then can be scored as per usefulness, and that usefulness can then be used to balance them.

If GGG doesn't have a complete list of pro's and con's they wish weapon styles to have, then they need to do that first, present their list to the community, give their ratings for usefulness, and then allow the community to add pro's/con's to the list that GGG might have overlooked. The community can then give ratings to each, and a better balance can be determined. It should be fairly clear where the disconnect between the community and the devs lies due to their ratings.

I feel the ball is in GGG's court to compile an internal list of style traits.

I haven't messed with dual-wielding at all. But it seems like it should allow for the same kills per minute as a two-hander since they're both completely offensive.

I like shields, but I don't find myself using them ever in normal or cruel (even in hardcore). The game isn't as hard, and the extra damage from the two-handers makes re-filling your flasks easier. I find them much more appealing in the higher levels. I could obviously be missing something though.

When more shield skills get added I think it will be a more interesting choice.