Weapon types balance
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Some points about dual wielding were raised in the feedback thread for the Cleave skill, and after some discussion we've established that the issue isn't with that skill itself, but with dual wielding in general.
In terms of melee characters, there are three weapon styles you can play - a one handed weapon with a shield, dual wielding two one-hand weapons, or a single two-handed weapon. I'm starting this thread to get feedback from everyone on how you all feel about the general balance between these styles of play. Currently, two-handed weapons hit harder than one-handed weapons, but tend to have a slower base attack speed (I think). Also, less gear potentially means less sockets. Dual wielding alternates hits, meaning you need to find two weapons with decent damage, but comes with a base +25% attack speed just for wielding two weapons at once. And of course using a shield is more defensive - you hit as hard as a dual-wielder, since you're using the same weapons, but you don't have the attack speed boost, instead you get the defense and block chance of the shield. How are these options stacking up? I've got at least some feedback saying dual wielding just isn't close enough in DPS to two-handed weapons - the attack speed boost isn't enough to keep them viable. So what do you all think? Ideally we want all three options to be viable as different builds, with different skills. There may well be some imbalance introduced by the lack of skills currently int he game, but I think we can still reason a lot about the base balance between the different approaches. Please give any and all feedback you can regarding these issues. This thread has been automatically archived. Replies are disabled.
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With level 1 equal weapons dual-wielders should put out slightly less dps than two-handers. This is too balance the fact they will have more slots and stats.
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Lifesteal when duelweilding + more attackspeed.
Maybe progressively more attackspeed as you level up Last edited by p0rt#1038 on Sep 4, 2011, 5:41:14 AM
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Quick breakdown of non-DPS related stuff.
DW Advantages: -more gem slots -more modifiers (though whether 2h weps get better mods is unknown to me) -more stuns vs low hp enemies 2H Advantages: -can stun high hp enemies that weak DW attacks wouldn't (in merciless/chaos this is quite a large subset of enemies) -twice as easy to get gear for -much more mana efficient (approx. 50% more mana efficient with most setups) In my opinion, those 2 sets of advantages/disadvantages seem fairly equal. You could give the edge to DW depending on the modifiers available. I'd have to see a list. IF those two sets of advantages are equal, then DPS should be pretty close. Currently it is not even remotely close. DW tries to make up for smaller hits with a 25% IAS bonus. The character screen stats indicate that this IAS bonus is additive with all the other IAS bonuses. If this is the case, this method is inherently flawed, because 25% IAS means less and less as a player accumulates IAS via other means. It is very easy to get 100%+ IAS as a duelist on your primary attack, for example, without even trying for an IAS build (if you went for an IAS build I think you can get something insane like +170% or more IAS not including the DW bonus). For an attackspeed bonus to balance out 2h and DW at all character levels, it would have to be a multiplicative bonus. It would also have to be much greater than 25%. With current weapon stats, it would have to be a +68% multiplicative IAS bonus. PS: I didn't include active skills advantages/disadvantages because so many skills are not in yet. Currently the advantage in skills is far in favor of 2h. Last edited by aimlessgun#1443 on Sep 4, 2011, 6:24:08 AM
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Just bringing here a little underlooked things about weapon balance. Ranger tree has dual wield block passives for total of 10%? block chance with dual wielding weapons. That would make them a little more defensive than 2h if that path was taken. (Not counting staff blocks)
I confirmed that I am still in HC league. Then I died.
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I had a DW duelist to 38 and I had to give up, I pumped all my DPS into Dual Strike along with about 4-5 supports. My attack speed was extremely fast but my Single target dps was very low.
Im currently working on a 2h spec and so far its going better, but the chance to miss is extremely noticeable with such a slow attack. Not to mention if ANY monster starts to run and I try to hit it while its moving id say its over a 50% chance to miss. I dont know if its a bug or lag. I have over a 80% hit chance too. |
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Well i personaly think that:
1)Shield + one handed weapon works good ,you got lower DPS than two-handed ,but instead you get alot of defence (the % block chance helps greatly). 2)Two-handed weapons are ok aswell ,they got high attack ,slow speed. So basicaly when you equip it you wanna to finish enemy in first blow. 3)Dual wield is currently wery weak option. You lack alot of defensive comparing to shield build ,while most skills use only weapon from 1 hand. Also its outclassed alot in DPS terms by two-handed weapons. I personaly think that the problem is in current skills in game. We just need more skills that use both hands to calculate dmg output ,then the DW will keepup with two-handed weapons. Also whats important ,dont make skills use 100% of both hands dmg ,thats will be to strong then. Simply because each 1 handed weapon got around 50% of two handed weapon dmg and you still got the 25% IAS to that. Just make skills that use like 100% of main hand dmg +50% of off-hand dmg or 75% of both hands dmg. Something like that will help alot. To that i think that dual wield is used on more squishy chars ,thats why it should maybe also give a bit of bonus to evasion. Additionaly raise base attack of bows a bit ,i start to find more one-handed weapons with greater dmg output than bows. |
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I want to bring another issue to the light of day that is slightly related, but feels that it would fit inside of here:
there is no reason to not use <weapon (wand)> + a shield as a caster, for the slight defensive boost that you gain from it, as you usually are weaker as a caster already, unless you find something really awesome to give up your shield for, but even then, shields have 4 slots, compared to wands (3) Not sure about how many slots other one handed weapons can have, but there is no advantage to dual wielding wands, or other weapons as a caster. a bonus for giving up your shield would be nice, but as it currently is though, its not needed (could be a passive instead? :3) Also, I tried out a one handed weapon maurader and a sword/shield duelist (as tank) the tank build is very viable, you just need someone else to help you kill stuff, as being tanky doesn't help in terms of damage. and the marauder is quite capable of slaying stuff that comes in his path, but lacks the defensive needs of a shield against archers | |
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While that's true I found dual wands to be a fun build for the unreleased dex/int class. Wands don't have to be for casters only, they can be dual-wieldable bows with better support fr elemental damage through passives.
There is at least some advantage I think to casters taking two wands, since I think some of the the more spell-like "+1 to level of XXX skill gems socketed in this item" mods are only for wands. But that may no longer be the case, I don't always keep track of such things. | |
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I had at least one shield with +1 level to cold gems. One benefit of dual wielding wands would be a seizeable amount of crit rating
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