Fix Raise Spectres disappearing when logging out

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elitedesolator wrote:

Now I'm not a computer science major or anything, but why would it be difficult to set up a "system" that tells your system to store one line of coding designating the monster you have as a spectre?

I (and many other people) understand and appreciate the effort it takes to build up this game and then to talk to us ingrates on a daily basis, but I really don't understand how an operation like this would be deemed complicated.

The thing is, we don't know how they have all of this coded. It could depend on different objects or methods, and particular tasks can be complicated because of this in some cases. I only know basics, very basic, but I do know that it depends completely on how they have it coded already. It could be difficult, or maybe not, but if Mark says it is I'm very much inclined to take his word.

Just making a minesweeper program took me like 3-4 months, I could never imagine what kind of work and knowledge goes into making a video game.

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elitedesolator wrote:

Also in terms of the piggyback issue isn't there already a system that you can potentially draw information from?

The session itself? Obviously the system is already set up such that you keep spectres between different maps and levels. You can already carry your spectres from 1 act to another, 1 difficulty to another, 1 level to another. Why would it then be a monumental task to save that information between disconnects?

Databases can be harder to change than executables. Research the Y2K bug and you will see how adding a simple field is not always so simple.


If your database has available slots it is easy to fill them in with data. If the slots do not exist, then they need to be added and references to those slots coded in. If the rows and columns don't exist, it is even more coding to add. If the table itself doesn't exist, then it requires a lot more referencing.

Consider how easy it is to add a new word to English by combining existing letters. What people are asking for is more like adding a new letter to the English language - a letter that must be defined and perhaps some other letters rearranged in terms of location, spelling and pronunciation.

Or

2142 E Elm st, Nowhere,NY.

A new house is build between two existing houses (2140 and 2143)and gets a new address - Easy.
That's what filling an existing slot is like.

Now imagine that you are not just adding the house address, but making up a new street and changing all the printed maps and online GPS program references to add that street.

It isn't impossible, but unless you want bugs and errors, but it does take time.

Plus, everything done to add in the new programming needs to be documented so that it can be undone if it breaks something else.


Hope that helps.

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Mark_GGG wrote:

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Daxtreme wrote:

So now, no one can say that the code "isn't there" and that they should concentrate their energies on working on something else, because it's there, Animate Guardian works that way, so it requires only a very simple translation of properties.

This is not correct. Raise spectre would need an entirely new system, because it stores completely different information. We already store items between sessions (in inventories) and Animate Guardian can piggyback on that because items are what it needs to store. It also relies on the fact you can only ever have one guardian. That same code cannot be used for spectres.

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Daxtreme wrote:

It's a very simple fix really

It really isn't.

It's something we'd like to be able to do eventually. But saying that because one minion can store information we already store by using the existing system means that we already can, or could simply add, storing of completely different information (multiple times over), of a type of which we currently have no system for storing, is incorrect.

I love your hard work GGG and thank you for it, and I know we always ask for more.
But seriously, whatever design you used in your storing facilities, remembering an array of objects each containing monsterType+monterLevel really shouldn't be the end of the programming world, no ?

And anyway, it's kind of mandatory anyway. Summoner are always my prefered class in arpgs, and I love almost everything you have done with them in PoE ; but I don't play 12 hours a day. And when I come back from work and get my 30min or 1h play time of the day, it's REALLY a pain to loose 15min finding my 4 fucking flame sentinels ! (ullr + queen's decree + passiv skill)


On another note (this has been asked in other topics) : i'm totally against being able to re-summon spectres easily when they die. This is about skill : keep your spectres alive, that's what's challenging.

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Mark_GGG wrote:

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Daxtreme wrote:

So now, no one can say that the code "isn't there" and that they should concentrate their energies on working on something else, because it's there, Animate Guardian works that way, so it requires only a very simple translation of properties.

This is not correct. Raise spectre would need an entirely new system, because it stores completely different information. We already store items between sessions (in inventories) and Animate Guardian can piggyback on that because items are what it needs to store. It also relies on the fact you can only ever have one guardian. That same code cannot be used for spectres.

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Daxtreme wrote:

It's a very simple fix really

It really isn't.

It's something we'd like to be able to do eventually. But saying that because one minion can store information we already store by using the existing system means that we already can, or could simply add, storing of completely different information (multiple times over), of a type of which we currently have no system for storing, is incorrect.

There you go again throwing facts into a perfectly rational opinion and messing it all up. ;-)

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Mr_Bill wrote:

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Mark_GGG wrote:

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Daxtreme wrote:

So now, no one can say that the code "isn't there" and that they should concentrate their energies on working on something else, because it's there, Animate Guardian works that way, so it requires only a very simple translation of properties.

This is not correct. Raise spectre would need an entirely new system, because it stores completely different information. We already store items between sessions (in inventories) and Animate Guardian can piggyback on that because items are what it needs to store. It also relies on the fact you can only ever have one guardian. That same code cannot be used for spectres.

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Daxtreme wrote:

It's a very simple fix really

It really isn't.

It's something we'd like to be able to do eventually. But saying that because one minion can store information we already store by using the existing system means that we already can, or could simply add, storing of completely different information (multiple times over), of a type of which we currently have no system for storing, is incorrect.

There you go again throwing facts into a perfectly rational opinion and messing it all up. ;-)

Huh, why did my old thread get revived exactly? lol

Anyway, we still want spectres that survive logging out, but GGG made it pretty clear that it was hard to do.

No pain no gain heh? :P

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elitedesolator wrote:

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Zeekin wrote:

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elitedesolator wrote:

Now I'm not a computer science major or anything

Hey man thanks for this information-filled reply that explained with detail why I'm wrong.

That's why I love these forums.

lol you run into this on pretty much any gaming forum on earth. if you have not dreamed up a game and sold it to 50 million people, every dumb fuck in front of a keyboard will assure you that you have absolutely 0% understanding on what it takes to create a video game...

best just ignore them...

oh sure PoE is a wonder of the world. The product is peerless and I'm often inclined to agree with the staff in NZ that things are almost never as simple as assumed....

but that does not lend one micron of credibility to any idiot so strongly focused on "professional experience..."

i've seen too many "professionals" struggle to manage a million dollar budget with a 2 page spreadsheet.

too many politicians create laws in yahoo mail.

too many 30+year IT gurus scouring google like 15 year old girls...

too many qualified power substation technicians who don't know how to wrap a fucking extension cord.

too many people using "professional designation" as an excuse to make or break decisions to ignore the fact that sometimes things are not nearly as complex and secretive as they seem...

again, strictly in reference to the goofball(s) who highlight your confession and used it against whomever is not a professional...

I have not read all the posts but here is my idea:

Make enemy bodies a type of item rather than just a graphic on the ground. The only interaction you can have with the item is to summon it. I assume this is how the animate weapon or gaurdian currently work with regular items. I realize this might mean a lot of work to change the way dead enemies are coded, but if the issue is having an item to attach information to, this might work (in concept). Just my 2 cents.

Can you guys please implement this..... It would be very helpful and time saving.