Why does reave not work properly with Dual wield?

OP got told.

I just think claws are in a weird place in general. Max q BR gives 10% leech. So, personally, I just dont see the point in claws. At least in the later stages of the game. I do like claws. But......

They need a lot more than a skill.

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TiltedAxis wrote:

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Mark_GGG wrote:

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TiltedAxis wrote:

Why does reave not work properly with Dual wield?

It does. It alternates weapons, and gains a multiplicative 10% more attack speed, as well as having 15% block chance.

That's what working with dual wielding is. That is how dual wield works.

So 10% attack speed and 15% block is a fair trade off to losing a shield?

is that GGG design logic?

sorry thats retarded. tell me it isn't

... and the ability to enhance damage from Dual Wield passives on top of one hand passives.
... and the ability to use some pretty interesting unique offhands
... and no one who dual wields has 15% block. They always get the block chance passive because it's on the way out of the Duelist tree. Most are rolling around 25-34%, right in line with shields.

You can make up anything you lose from a shield with a unique offhand except for armor, and HP. Resistances can be made up there if you want them, block chance can go EVEN HIGHER if you want it, damage can scale much better.

It's a tradeoff. It's not going to be good for every build, it depends on what your build requires offensively and what it already provides defensively.

So I tried Reave today on my 2 crit dagger characters, one is dual wield the other is dagger + shield, my impression was that it was only viable with the dual wielder due to the attack speed, double strike was far superior with 1 hander and shield. actually double strike was superior for both builds but on the dual wielder reave was actually semi viable.

We are talking about high phys crit daggers, swapping double strike + melee splash for reave + added fire resulted in a substantial dps loss for both builds. I presume with area damage passives/gems it could maybe come close to the double strike dps, but Im sceptical. On my dual wielder it had the same problem dual strike + melee splash had, extremely dangerous against phys reflect mobs, I nearly killed myself trying to attack one. Switched out reave + added fire for double strike + melee splash, dps went up by 4k, was able to crit the phys reflect pack to bits without taking any noticeable damage. Dual strike + melee splash is just far too dangerous on that character, and given it does over 10kdps more than Reave + added fire I really dont see reave out performing it damage wise with a diff build. I will have to get out the tabla though and have a proper test with diff gem setups.

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dspair wrote:

People seriously think that 10% more damage is better than more block, life, es/armour/evasion and resists?

you can stack crit chance, % to elemental, life leech, mana leech, resist, core stats, accuracy.. many things on an offhand that is not in action. If you think shields are better then just use shields.


I think people just got carried away with the reave name, decided it was going to be ele cleave for daggers and claws. The skill is what it is, yes dual wield could do with some new skills but this wasnt one of them. It would be a lot more niche if it was, which I dont think is a good thing. Dual wield will do more damage with reave, will have more crit chance, can stack double global stats as listed above

Added fire?

mind posting your daggers

Wait is reave main hand only? Because if it alternates there's no way you can stack those things on the offhand and still see a damage increase. You will have to have a dagger that very similar in local bonuses to your main hand.

Reave alternates, but is best used while dual wielding

If it alternates and you have identical daggers, the best you can really hope for is 10% more attack speed and maybe global crit (dagger base) and crit multiplier? I'm not sure that will ever beat the power of a shield in this game.

Its how the skill works thats important. The AoE builds with successive hits. The faster you hit, the quicker the Aoe gets to full.

Faster attacks gets charges built up quicker. Allows one to leech faster. Since daggers are based off crits, the more attacks done= better odds of critting and obliterating the enemy.

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SL4Y3R wrote:

Added fire?

mind posting your daggers

sure, the daggers are nothing special, but if youve tried crit daggers youll know how sinister the levels of dps get with even a half decent phys dagger


dual wielder





dagger n shield






Ive had to drop anger and wrath auras on the dual wielder so Im not exactly sure on dps figures but its around 12.5k double strike + melee splash for aoe and a little over 22k dps single target dual strike. It was about 14.5/24.5 previously. The dagger + shield build is getting a little over 11k dps melee splash double strike.

The Reave I was using was only lvl8 and the double strikes it was replacing are around 18, but the added fire was lvl18 and I was dropping down from over 12k dps tooltip to about 8k with added fire + reave, tbh I thought added fire scaling off phys the dps replacing melee splash (thats a damage nerf) would be huge and actually tooltip went down massively for both and kill speed was very noticeably slower.

I think Reave is probably a good viable skill, Im sure its great if you build for it but for my existing builds I really dont think its going to be a viable alternative to what Im doing. It was quite fun to play with the high attack speed build, certainly an enjoyable skill, but I feel like Im going to have to build specifically for it in order to really try it out.

Given the latest aura patch just obliterated my lvl80 wander witch beyond the point where I think I can ever play that character again hopefully a full respec will be given out in the not too distant future and I can give it a whirl with a full endgame build.