Updated 3/19/2014 - Auto-Stack Option (a glowing effect applied to stackable items when stacked)

Someone explain why currency even has to take up space. D1 did it with piles of gold, and it was annoying enough that they took it out for D2.

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Shagsbeard wrote:

Someone explain why currency even has to take up space. D1 did it with piles of gold, and it was annoying enough that they took it out for D2.

Because maybe I want 40 Transmutation Orbs. Sure, 4 of them convert to an Augment, and 4 of those become an Alteration, but do you really want to break a Fusing into 3 Jeweler's, 1 Alt, 3 Augments, 3 Trans, 6 Portals, and 4 Wisdom scrolls just to ID something?

Gold and games with Copper and Silver can make this sort of arrangement work because they define a silver as 100 copper and a gold as 100 silver. PoE intentionally went with a barter system instead and assigned different functions to the 'currency' levels so that they would have a fluctuating value normalized to within a reasonable range by what the NPC vendors offer. D2 used 'gold' as the standard currency, but then made items (runes, gems, SoJ) that were required for certain crafting recipes which became so valuable that they REPLACED the gold standard for trading end game resources. The only similarity between the two economies is that no matter how many stash tabs full of wisdom scrolls you have, no one will trade you a mirror for them.

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SoylentJello wrote:

The obvious and elegantly simple solution is to change the counter and behavior on the shards such that they stack to 200 and DON'T automatically transform into an orb. Show maximum stack size by default and let experienced players turn it off. When you get 20+ shards, the hover-text should tell you to click to convert.

The current auto-conversion is only annoying because it doesn't automatically stack the converted orbs. Having to manually create orbs of any given type would be even more of a pain. You'd need to greatly increase the max stack size, plus you wouldn't have the immediate feedback that you've gathered another orb's worth of shards. While the current system is flawed, it does do that much as Mark pointed out.

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SoylentJello wrote:

Since most of the code already exists, this should require less work to modify than attempting to drastically change item behavior in the stash.

This isn't that drastic of a change (yes, I'm a professional programmer). It would be a minor (although not quite trivial) effort, and well worth it to erase this UI annoyance. There is already code to auto-stack newly-created items, but it only happens in the player's inventory.

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SoylentJello wrote:

This will reduce micromanagement of stash pages and reduce in-town time every trip. If you can't be assed to right-click on a stack to convert it to 1-10 orbs at once, you shouldn't be picking up so much shit when you farm.

Again, there's no reason it can't be easier and not discourage farming at all. The current version of the OP is the "obvious and elegant" fix IMO.

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Krinny wrote:

You don't need to have some arbitrary glowing effect on stacks. That's just more code for them to deal with.

The main problem is Shards -> Orb -> Sort.

You need some way of indicating where their new orb went. That feedback is important both as a reward for creating a new orb and as a locator. I'd be willing to bet that a simple color shift ("glow") would not be THAT involved. It would certainly be worth it to put this issue to bed.

SoylentJello says,
"The obvious and elegantly simple solution is to change the counter and behavior on the shards such that they stack to 200 and DON'T automatically transform into an orb. Show maximum stack size by default and let experienced players turn it off. When you get 20+ shards, the hover-text should tell you to click to convert.

Since most of the code already exists, this should require less work to modify than attempting to drastically change item behavior in the stash.

This will reduce micromanagement of stash pages and reduce in-town time every trip. If you can't be assed to right-click on a stack to convert it to 1-10 orbs at once, you shouldn't be picking up so much shit when you farm."

HeavyMetalGear replies,
"I would first like to say that telling me (or anyone) not to pick up so much stuff when I farm is a pointless suggestion to make. That's not going to fix the issue! That's the whole point in farming anything whether early game or end-game. You're going to pick up items, you're going to vendor them, and you're going to get something in return that doesn't always turn into a complete Orb, Scroll, or whatever it is.

That being said, I like your approach! I'm not going to sit here and say what's in the OP is 100% elegant or efficient since it's not when compared to your idea. Unlike most people, at least I can admit when someone else has something better in mind.

In fact, I like your alternative idea so much I am thinking about translating it into an illustrating to compare with what I have in the OP. This is what brainstorming is all about.



All else aside, thank you for your feedback.
HeavyMetalGear"

HeavyMetalGear quotes Krinny,
"You don't need to have some arbitrary glowing effect on stacks. That's just more code for them to deal with.

The main problem is Shards -> Orb -> Sort."

HeavyMetalGear replies,
"Absolutely not. There doesn't need to be some sort feature for shards and orbs. SoylentJello has it more figured out on what the fix should really be that's more efficient than what anyone else thus far has come up with in this thread."

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PrimeHydra quotes Krinny,
"You don't need to have some arbitrary glowing effect on stacks. That's just more code for them to deal with.

The main problem is Shards -> Orb -> Sort."

PrimeHydra replies,
"You need some way of indicating where their new orb went. That feedback is important both as a reward for creating a new orb and as a locator. I write code for a living and I'd be willing to bet that a simple color shift ("glow") would not be THAT involved. It would certainly be worth it to put this issue to bed."

HeavyMetalGear replies,
"While I see where Krinny is coming from, I agree. The developers won't be too pressured (as Krinny exaggerates) to implement what I illustrated in the OP."

That being said, I respect and relate to what SoylentJello has in mind for an alternative idea to this issue since it's the most efficient fix to the problem. To prove this, I am going to take what he suggested and translate it into an illustration, and make it better."

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Nicholas_Steel wrote:

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SoylentJello wrote:

The obvious and elegantly simple solution is to change the counter and behavior on the shards such that they stack to 200 and DON'T automatically transform into an orb. Show maximum stack size by default and let experienced players turn it off. When you get 20+ shards, the hover-text should tell you to click to convert.

That is an interesting alternative approach. Have it so it doesn't auto complete an orb and instead request you to Right-Click the shards to convert them (Complete orbs would occupy the space previously occupied by the shards, otherwise left overs would use the system proposed by the Op... which is defeating the point lol.)

I tried my best with what I had in mind, that which did not include something better like what SoylentJello has in mind.

So yes, you're right. When what's in the OP is compared with Soylentjello's idea, what I had in looks much more inefficient.

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HeavyMetalGear wrote:

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Nicholas_Steel wrote:

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SoylentJello wrote:

The obvious and elegantly simple solution is to change the counter and behavior on the shards such that they stack to 200 and DON'T automatically transform into an orb. Show maximum stack size by default and let experienced players turn it off. When you get 20+ shards, the hover-text should tell you to click to convert.

That is an interesting alternative approach. Have it so it doesn't auto complete an orb and instead request you to Right-Click the shards to convert them (Complete orbs would occupy the space previously occupied by the shards, otherwise left overs would use the system proposed by the Op... which is defeating the point lol.)

I tried my best with what I had in mind, that which did not include something better like what SoylentJello has in mind.

So yes, you're right. When what's in the OP is compared with Soylentjello's idea, what I had in mind then looks much more inefficient.

You would rather right-click and manually create orbs every single time, than have them auto-stack with a glow to indicate the newly-augmented stack? *scratches head*

PrimeHydra says to HeavyMetalGear,
"You would rather right-click and manually create orbs every single time, than have them auto-stack with a glow to indicate the newly-augmented stack? *scratches head*"

HeavyMetalGear replies,
"Of course!

The secret to making SoylentJello's idea better is to make it where if you got 40 shards out of the 200 shards accumulated, and you do a single right-click, you will get 2 Alt Orbs, and so on, at a time instead of just one Alt Orb with every single right-click. In addition to that, there will also be concise tooltip text telling players how to convert all their accumulated Shards into Alt Orbs. The same thing goes for Scroll Fragments, Alch Shards, etc.

IF all the above stated doesn't sound more efficient than what I have in the OP via a transparent animation going across the screen, a glowing effect, and the number shown (graphically) for the number of accumulated Alt Orbs, I would like to see someone come up with a better idea.

It's not often I go against my own idea(s), but when someone else has it figured out a little better than I do, why should I deny it? The trick is to take someone's criticism (if it's logical) and make things better than what they originally suggested."

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HeavyMetalGear wrote:

PrimeHydra says to HeavyMetalGear,
"You would rather right-click and manually create orbs every single time, than have them auto-stack with a glow to indicate the newly-augmented stack? *scratches head*"

HeavyMetalGear replies,
"Of course!

The secret to making SoylentJello's idea better is to make it where if you got 40 shards out of the 200 shards accumulated, and you do a single right-click, you will get 2 Alt Orbs, and so on, at a time instead of just one Alt Orb with every single right-click. In addition to that, there will also be concise tooltip text telling players how to convert all their accumulated Shards into Alt Orbs. The same thing goes for Scroll Fragments, Alch Shards, etc.

There are two problems with this solution that I think would keep it from getting implemented. The first is the feedback issue. It lessens reward, critical components of any loot-collecting game. As annoying as it is having to move the newly-created orb onto its stack, it still feels good to have created a new Alch for instance. This is per Mark of GGG:

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Mark_GGG wrote:

Personally, I agree...that feedback that an actual new orb has been created is important, both because I like to be aware of what my items are doing, and because it provides a sense of progress - you actually know when you've accumulated enough shards for an orb, rather than just constantly throwing them in and then looking later and seeing you have some orbs - each time I see the knew orb, it's feedback that my accumulation of shards has reached an important threshold, and I've accomplished something.

You'd no longer have the reward of creating a new orb; you'd only see a new stack of shards once it reached its (greatly increased) max size. The orb is the goal, not the full stack; some of them (e.g., Alchs) get formed much less often.

The second issue is less important but still significant: convenience. The shard-stack solution doesn't eliminate the nuisance, it just transforms it from dropping a newly-created orb into right-clicking to create orbs. I suspect most players would be more annoyed having to perform two steps in order to create currency: 1) accumulate enough shards and 2) right-click to create them. There'd never be a situation where you'd want _only_ the shards. If shards themselves were reagents in some other recipes, this solution would make perfect sense.

Please consider giving equal weight to your previous suggestion of glowing the newly-augmented stack where the new orb is automatically placed. If not, hey, we can at least agree that the current system is lacking, and I'll make me own thread ;-)

Good thoughts! Problem solving is fun, no?

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PrimeHydra wrote:

Please consider giving equal weight to your previous suggestion of glowing the newly-augmented stack where the new orb is automatically placed. If not, hey, we can at least agree that the current system is lacking, and I'll make me own thread ;-)

Good thoughts! Problem solving is fun, no?

I'm going back and forth in my head, but I'm finding more problems now with SoylentJello's idea than my original idea. Therefore, I think I am going to stick with my original suggestion.