New Core Stats (STR/DEX/INT) balance
" 1st quote) Even it has to do with Passive Tree, does it mean that we should avoid the core problem? 2nd quote) I was struggled choosing between "Block and Stun Recovery" vs "Life Regeneration", however, in my example, Energy Shield and Evasion will give other core stats an advantage. Meanwhile, I don't object you disagreeing my suggestion, but the problem seems to affect other things, as it transfers the problem to skill tree or itemization, which clearly leads to Magic Blood (skill tree) and Iron Reflexes (itemization) imbalance. 3rd quote) It doesn't matter, as I said on my first initial post, this is a core change, it will affect many things. Leaving as is will create exploit for Balanchine problem. You can disagree with the change, but not sure how you can ignore the existing problems (Blood Magic, Iron Reflexes, Chaos Inoculation, and etc.) being more powerful (they should exist, but not OP). 4th quote) Would like to get a reference and understand those statements. A Life + Evasion is definitely strong, but wonder what weapon (close range?) and how many points are located (after putting in Life and Evasion, how many points are allocated to damage - I hope this is not limited to a particular build, and others fall apart). |
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Also, evasion already has a damage mitigation feature. Don't understimate the second roll to avoid critical hits.
@the one that said that evasion is the worst defense: look at the graphs in there and read the explanation: Game Mechanics Thread "The harder the game, the better." Last edited by Vold316#0180 on Sep 8, 2012, 4:37:49 PM
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" This is interesting, however, as the thread said "This is a computer algebra system package written to plot effective health against the whole possible range of gear stats" Is there a comparison between the core stats without involving itemization. Sure, you are balanced with the right items, but would that break the balance when there are more creative builds? |
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It's a comparison between evasion, damage mitigation (from armour) and life; in terms of effective health (EH). The graphic show different scenarios and how they behave. It's based on build stats rather than gear stats, it includes everything: passive tree, gear, base stats.
As a conclusion, each different defensive stat is better in different situations. "The harder the game, the better."
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" Not exactly unless I mis-understand. I read the code, and it is more about how much you spec on the skill tree and gear; You find the balance yourself, but not proofing that STR, DEX, INT are balanced. The base stats doesn't exist, no input for DEX nor INT, but you input your overall Evasion (and Energy Shield?). Sure, you can find out where is the balance, but it doesn't mean 10 STR = 10 DEX = 10 INT, furthermore, it is created to ask players to adjust to the core stats, instead of proofing the core stats are balanced. Certainly it has a point that each defensive aspect has its purpose (though, I don't see Energy Shield), but it doesn't mean the effective points are scaled in balance. |
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I've mentioned this before, and I'll mention it again.
As far as stats go, Dexterity is simply left in the dust compared to Strength or Intelligence. +Accuracy? Doesn't up my ability to spam attacks like Int does with +MP or up ability to deal harder hitting attacks like Str does with +meleedamage. And then the issue with evasion mechanics. Everyone knows that evasion without enough life to back it up is utterly useless. It's why lots of players go IR instead. I know the next major patch 9.12 will address the issue of lack of HP passives in the dex tree, but frankly, I feel like there is a fundamental issue with the concept that you need to stack life to have an effective evasion-based build. To me, it becomes no different from a tanky Marauder with the same or similar life pools, only you have a chance to dodge attacks, a chance that keeps scaling down. Regarding scaling, only Dex is hit hard with both stats scaling down. Str and Int on the other do not scale down in terms of +HP and +MP. Those do not go down compared to +meleedamage. Int has it better as you don't lose either MP or ES. So there clearly is a balance issue that should be addressed. I would rather see Dex as speed-based stats, such as +attackspeed or +movementspeed than +accuracy. And Evasion can stay so long as it gets reworked. For Ranger build tips, tactics, and critiques, visit this thread:
http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/69224 |
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" This is what I am suggesting in my OP as well, because +Attack Speed and +Casting Time is equivalent to better accuracy (harder to manually dodge attacks). I didn't put +Movement Speed, because it will be too powerful, and there is an advantage with armor already. Anyways, as you and someone mentioned the same thing that, is it fair to allocate DEX + passive points just to make it equivalent to STR? |
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I am not so convinced that dexterity is worthless. Granted, I find it wasteul to stack after around 200 or so (I mean, if we're counting dex from passive skill points alone), but I find this equally the case with STR and INT. I am not convinced that STR or INT are so significantly better than DEX that we must suddenly rework the entire attribute system.
I did suggest in the past that we add a slight +crit chance modifier per 5 dex, as this would not upset RT user balance but would buff DEX users slightly, but GGG did not comment on that suggestion. I have a feeling they disagree. That's fine with me. I think your analysis on DEX is simply unfair at the moment. Your perception of its strength is probably biased by the current passive tree and active skill selection. The fundamental changes you are proposing would be too complicated to balance and I'm not so sure they would really fix anything in regards to DEX. INT and STR would still be significantly better to stack. Rather, I would advise we just use the 'wait and see' method. We can propose sweeping balance changes down the road. Do consider that Chris said not too long ago that there are only about 14 unique skills in the game - 14 out of 100 planned. (by unique, Chris counts all 7 curses in the game as 1 unique skill) My Keystone Ideas: http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/744282 Last edited by anubite#0701 on Sep 8, 2012, 10:22:00 PM
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I haven't read all the back and forth in this thread but i think i get the jist of it, so i'll just chime in with my 2c and let you all carry on.
I'd like to see a bit more class distinction in terms of attributes as well. Like Witches gaining more INT per level and Rangers more DEX per level, Templars gaining a bit more INT and STR per level but not as much as either witch or mara, etc etc. This would make it feel more important to pick a class because currently on my witch i could have the exact same build - 4 or so points if i picked Templar or Shadow and i think that's kinda weak. Also i've never played an mmo or rpg where INT doesnt benefit spell damage so i find that kinda weird. Carry on =) Beyeser - 77 Marauder
FuzzyClam - 80 Witch FishyTaco - 74 Witch |
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" Perhaps there are more complimentary pieces for STR (HP). You have increase Life nodes, you have increase Life regeneration. However, there are only increase Evasion nodes. As for analyzing DEX, I don't know is it biased, but Evasion only works for melee damages, which only works against STR class. Meanwhile, STR class works against all class. (I assume the increment of each Life, Evasion and Energy Shield are balanced, STR class the advantage against all classes.) |
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