Zealots Oath - What is it good for?

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hissnail wrote:

There are few regen nodes on the tree that you actually should get. Golem's Blood (plus the two 0.4% regen nodes next to it) and the Life Regeneration node in the Templar tree are the most accessible. However, getting 0.8% ES regen from the two nodes next to Golem's Blood is a waste of points and could be better invested elsewhere (unless you're above lvl 90, which is highly unlikely).

So spending 2 nodes to get 1% regen is totally worth it, but to get 0.8% is a 'waste of points'? Even though you've probably already spent 3 or 4 nodes to get to Golem's blood in the first place? I think you are wrong on that point; the 0.4% nodes are fine.

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dudiobugtron wrote:

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hissnail wrote:

There are few regen nodes on the tree that you actually should get. Golem's Blood (plus the two 0.4% regen nodes next to it) and the Life Regeneration node in the Templar tree are the most accessible. However, getting 0.8% ES regen from the two nodes next to Golem's Blood is a waste of points and could be better invested elsewhere (unless you're above lvl 90, which is highly unlikely).

So spending 2 nodes to get 1% regen is totally worth it, but to get 0.8% is a 'waste of points'? Even though you've probably already spent 3 or 4 nodes to get to Golem's blood in the first place? I think you are wrong on that point; the 0.4% nodes are fine.

Did you take a look at the passive tree in my guide? It's quite hard to pull off 7 Frenzy charges while getting survivability, so every little thing has to be efficient. I spend two Dex nodes to get to Golem's Blood FOR Golem's Blood, not the two 0.4% regen nodes. I'd only get those if I went past lvl 90. Getting more ES is more important than getting more % ES regen, since your % ES regen will scale with your total ES anyway. Having lower ES but higher % ES regen achieves similar numbers, not higher numbers.

It depends on the build of course, but I'd say investing 1 point per 0.4% regen is not useful unless you somehow have a massive ES pool and aren't anywhere near other ES nodes.

(Golem's Blood is also along the way to Unwavering Stance, which is a must. You can get Eye of Chayula, but that can't be found in Anarchy/Onslaught and I'd much rather use an amulet with 20-22% increased max ES and + base max ES shield mods.)

My point is there are a lot of sources of es regen, and its nice to have. All builds can find some way to regen ES if they really wanted to. Even 5% regen of an 8k pool is amazing.

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ancalagon3000 wrote:

My point is there are a lot of sources of es regen, and its nice to have. All builds can find some way to regen ES if they really wanted to. Even 5% regen of an 8k pool is amazing.

Oh definitely, though for the purposes of a build that utilizes ZO and not VP, more % ES regen is desirable. But like you said, even 5% ES regen can go a long way, and that is why investing in small 0.4% nodes is not necessary (even with 10k ES, 0.8% ES regen gives only 80 ES regen). The most important aspect for a CI build using ZO and The Blood Dance boots is definitely to maintain the Frenzy charges, since that is where most of the % ES regen comes from.

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hissnail wrote:

Did you take a look at the passive tree in my guide? It's quite hard to pull off 7 Frenzy charges while getting survivability, so every little thing has to be efficient. I spend two Dex nodes to get to Golem's Blood FOR Golem's Blood, not the two 0.4% regen nodes. I'd only get those if I went past lvl 90. Getting more ES is more important than getting more % ES regen, since your % ES regen will scale with your total ES anyway. Having lower ES but higher % ES regen achieves similar numbers, not higher numbers.

I hadn't seen it, sorry. It seems like you've done a lot of thinking about some good trade-offs.

A couple of ideas you might be interested in:

- If you go around the top (From CI to GR) instead of the next row down, you can get 'unnatural calm' instead of 'mind drinker' for the same passive investment. This would also be good if you did your idea of using Soul Taker.

- If you get that new belt which lets you use your ES for status effect duration, then you could possibly skip the three shock-resistance nodes.

- If you drop the 30 INT node on the right hand side, and get the remaining node from the body and soul cluster, then you get the same ES, and 8% increased armour to boot.

Well if you happen to be a Summoner and use Vitality aura to keep minions regening up you get its benefit for your ES, you will get it's benefits too... a whooping 75 ES per second with aura at lvl 20 and a base ES of 5000, thats on top of any %life regen passive or item bonus, and it's allways working.

A bit niche situation but hey :P

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dudiobugtron wrote:

A couple of ideas you might be interested in:

- If you go around the top (From CI to GR) instead of the next row down, you can get 'unnatural calm' instead of 'mind drinker' for the same passive investment. This would also be good if you did your idea of using Soul Taker.

- If you get that new belt which lets you use your ES for status effect duration, then you could possibly skip the three shock-resistance nodes.

- If you drop the 30 INT node on the right hand side, and get the remaining node from the body and soul cluster, then you get the same ES, and 8% increased armour to boot.

Thanks for the suggestions.

It would be ideal to get Unnatural Calm, but the build requires some mana leech seeing as Frenzy can cost quite a bit of mana per cast. Since Frenzy also makes you attack really fast, it's unlikely that you can support it unless you use Mana flasks or use Mana Leech and have a high mana pool (for a better amount of mana leeched per second). I think Unnatural Calm is good if using Marohi Erqi because you pretty need a Mana Leech gem. With Soul Taker, you can do the same thing but you need at least a little bit of mana leech if you use Shavronne's Revelation (that's probably the idea behind getting Mind Drinker). Casting curses or Enduring Cry still requires mana because they aren't considered attacks made by Soul Taker. In any case, it sort of depends on how much mana leech you can get to support your skills without having to use Mana flasks (I think most people would rather have other flasks), which will determine which path to take.

Auxium only affects chill and freeze duration, not shock. That's why the shock avoidance nodes are important.

I kept the 30 Int node because it provides a little mana as well (making it easier to reach a mana pool that allows sufficient mana leech to support constant Frenzy casts), but it can definitely be invested in the last Body and Soul node. Again, it comes down to the size of your mana pool based on how much mana you get from items.

I'm fairly new to the game, but I didn't see mention of the implicit 50% stun avoidance while ES is > 0. I'm not sure how useful in reality that is, but seems like something worth mentioning in a thread that discussed the potential use of ZO with hybrid life/es builds.

I imagine if I was going to use it, it would be for a build that gets most of it's recovery from life leech. even 1 point of energy shield results in 50% stun resistance, so I'd likely toss my unused regen into ES and let my leech take care of life.

ES would take care of downtime because if it's down, I'm in combat leeching, and if it's up, I'm not in combat, so my HP is fine even if it's nearly gone.

+ there is potions for out of combat healing. I imagine it's intent simply doesn't line up with the meta gaming you all eventually went with. It probably goes towards idea's like the one I just posted, which I imagine you've all proven not to work via play time during OB

I'm a newer player and have planned my first "real" char. (after totally botching the 1st one) as a Scion Life/ES Hybrid that will eventually go CI/Zealots. The Idea was to only grab double duty life nodes, and as many of the % Life Regen nodes as possible until ES significantly outweighs Life then going CI/Zealots so as to have as little waste as possible on the switchover. And having a little extra life increase behind the CI should help raise my Crit/Stun Resist making taking the few life nodes not a total waste later.

Here's the basic build path I was going for. It also leaves open the possibility of grabbing Ghost Reaver if I find it necessary, though that was not in my original plan.

http://www.pathofexile.com/passive-skill-tree/AAAAAgAAAW8CcQSzCGcRUBXXGS4c3B3ZHpQkiyftKPopLilPLKYsvzLRNAo3ZjeDOtg74TyOPQ9DVEVHRZ1G10rITdhPv1RJVmNXyV3GXz9nm2h0bRl6qny7f8aBb4LHguSESIauiq-Leox2kBGTJ5SgmuCePKKjpuunK6w_tAy1BLiTud271r68wcXB88NtxPbUj9eG2E3aYtxX4vfkIudS6rrr7uwY7DjvDvIv8933wfno

This is the pure, and prob. a bit overkill, Defense Plan (I did not include any of my planned offensive passives). But it includes 4.7%Life Regen swapped to ES using Zealot's at 5k ES that 235/sec. + whatever I can generate from gear.

My point, I suppose, is that I immediately saw the value in Zealots, but only in conjunction with CI. I suppose it might work to take it early before going CI and using Pots/leach to manage life... I'll have to mess around with that at lvl 50-60 and see what happens.