Now HC-Friendly - Claws of Chaos Build - Uses CI / Ghost Reaver / Vaal Pact / Iron Reflexes

Yet one more crit claw build :( I am so sad when i see one. Spend some time and study the nodes. Here's a part about this from my thread.

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P.S.
Attention Claws Lovers! You ask/suggest me very often that my build with claws will lose a little damage and add a lot of leech aka survivability. Here's my answer for that:
By going claws you loose around 300% crit chance and 66% crit multiplier from dagger only nodes and dagger base bonuses. In other words with daggers you will have 90% chance do deal 10x damage, with claws you will have 60% chance to deal 6x Damage. Decide for yourself how 'insignificant' this is.
By doing that much damage with daggers i leech to FULL ES with EACH crit with only 10% leech that blood rage gives me. So there is no reason to have more leech.

So by chosing claws over daggers you loose dps and gain... nothing. Because it is reallly doesn matter how you overheal your es pool :) Claws are great for non crit build. but if you go crits no reason to do it with claws.

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Xavyer wrote:

Yet one more crit claw build :( I am so sad when i see one. Spend some time and study the nodes. Here's a part about this from my thread.

"

P.S.
Attention Claws Lovers! You ask/suggest me very often that my build with claws will lose a little damage and add a lot of leech aka survivability. Here's my answer for that:
By going claws you loose around 300% crit chance and 66% crit multiplier from dagger only nodes and dagger base bonuses. In other words with daggers you will have 90% chance do deal 10x damage, with claws you will have 60% chance to deal 6x Damage. Decide for yourself how 'insignificant' this is.
By doing that much damage with daggers i leech to FULL ES with EACH crit with only 10% leech that blood rage gives me. So there is no reason to have more leech.

So by chosing claws over daggers you loose dps and gain... nothing. Because it is reallly doesn matter how you overheal your es pool :) Claws are great for non crit build. but if you go crits no reason to do it with claws.

I have studied the nodes. My build does what I intend it to do. Thank You.

I guess you never heard of a thing called balance have you? It's an all-around build that puts out damage and still offers a great amount of crit and survival.

Not only that, going daggers uses up more nodes than claw nodes do to make daggers really good. I like balance in the Skill Tree, neither too much of this or that.

I do gain something, constant gains to my ES per leech and hit (I updated what my gear links would be.) My setup is a more on the safe side vs. all-out damage output.

Not only that, I now included the Gem 'Vulnerability' which helps make up for some of the damage loss.

Too much of one thing isn't always good. That's a common rule of thumb. I'm not focusing on just the idea of damage. That's boring.

Ok. Your build have 16 nodes in claws and 3 node in boring 15% crit chance. I took these 19 nodes and moved them to daggers and Deadeye. By doing this i lost 12% leech and 8% attack spee, and gaind: +24% phys damage,+55% crit chance,+86% crit multiplier, poison dot on crit (10% of crit damage over 2 sec).By swapping claws to daggers i lost 6 more leech and gained +160% Crit. so it's 210% crit chance, 86% crit multiplier, 25% phys damage vs 8% attack speed and 18% leech.
Now base crit multilier is 150% so +86% means 1.5*1.86 = 278% more damage on crit. Also crit build should use Crit weakness curse as it DOUBLES crit damage. so it's +550% damage on crits with curse.
You will do crits 20% more often and each crit will do +550% weapon damage.
I hope i showed here that by spending exacly the same number of nodes on daggers i gain a lot more that you in your build.
You may say that you agree to loose some dps to gain a lot of tankiness. But these's a problem with that. You don't need to leech more that your max es from hit. And if you can leech your max es with 10% leech from blood rage that you just fooling yourself thinking that additional 18% leech help you survive in any way.
Esseintially you trade dps for nothing, not dps for survivability.

The thing is that with just blood rage you are leeching pretty much your entire ES pool per hit, there is no need for those leech nodes in claws. They are useless because you are overleeching. Daggers by themselves overleech max ES in a CI build with blood rage, adding the 12% leech is redundant because it never gets used when your already overmaxxing leech.

I mean if you have 4k ES and crit for 40k (this is quite low) you only need 10% leech to completely fill your ES pool, 20% to completely ignore reflect. This is the reason that claws are useless at the endgame compared to daggers, the leech stat on them is useless you hit max leech potential so easily with warlords and Blood rage that it is not needed.

He wants to use claws:/

How they compare to daggers is pointless as he has his mind set on using claws.

Suggesting he uses daggers instead of claws doesn't improve his claw build, it changes it to a dagger build.

I have nothing agains claws, just agains calws+crits. Claws are great for noncrit build. Just stick pure damage, attack speed, and so on. i myself made a very nice claw tank concept a while ago.

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Maethorr wrote:

The thing is that with just blood rage you are leeching pretty much your entire ES pool per hit, there is no need for those leech nodes in claws. They are useless because you are overleeching. Daggers by themselves overleech max ES in a CI build with blood rage, adding the 12% leech is redundant because it never gets used when your already overmaxxing leech.

Good to see second fella who does math. Nice.

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Maethorr wrote:

I mean if you have 4k ES and crit for 40k (this is quite low) you only need 10% leech to completely fill your ES pool, 20% to completely ignore reflect.

Nope, reflect cannot be ignored. First leech resolves, then reflect damage resolves, even if both are instance. So only way to survive is to stack armour or to reduce spike damage you provide.
Of course with claws you feel safer with reflect, but not because of leech, but because of less spike damage provided.
With daggers you can make a 20k damage crit-hit. If 6 mobs got under AoE hit you recieve back 20k * 6 * 20% = 24k reflect damage. Even with 50% phys reduce from armour you'll receive 12k (end even more because armour don't save good against spike damage), and will be dead. With claws you will make 5k damage crit-hit, reflecting back 6k, reducing to 3k and leeching it back with second hit with double overleech (Damage = 5k * 6 mobs = 30k * 20% leech = 6k ES leech). Multiplying by aps and it seems that claws are safer :)

I only just realized that you use Double Strike and Cyclone while DUALWIELDING!
You do know that Double strike and Cyclone do not use 2 weapons at once? They alterate weapons on attacks. This mean you do not gain dps booste from second weapon you just run with it to be closer to your wolverine little dream :) If you go shield you will lose a tiny 10% attack speed and that's it - your dps will me mostly the same with 1 claw and these 2 skills. The only skill in the game that can use 2 claws AT ONCE is Dual stike.
P.S. Oh and Unraveling Stance do not remove Evasion because it was converted to armor. Everybody run perfectly fint with IR+Stun Immune.

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Mammatus wrote:

He wants to use claws:/

How they compare to daggers is pointless as he has his mind set on using claws.

Suggesting he uses daggers instead of claws doesn't improve his claw build, it changes it to a dagger build.

Agree, nothing wrong about using claws. I like the way claws looks better then daggers. But math tells us that dagger crit build better then claw crit build. And claw non crit phys build better then dagger non crit phys build. And of course ppl can play with claw crit build, if they want, just no need to say that it has some advantages over dagger crit build, because there are non but one: claws could forgive mistakes attacking phys-reflet mobs, but daggers won't.

Thread is more like Vampires VS Werewolfs.