Builds after 0.11.0 nerf

"

grepman wrote:

if you have all minion dmg passives in the tree, remote mine (even non-quality) beats quality minion damage.

also, concentrated effect is huge multiplication in explosion damage of sentinel fireballs... if you can live with reduced aoe and the fact that initial forked fireballs will hit for much less.

Question was addressed to Baalat, so i will wait for his answer.

"

ixthUA wrote:

I did not mean to discuss farmer builds to repeatedly clear same story areas (like flame sentinel temple) due to their lack of flexibility.
Also, since efficiency if important for farming, maybe fire trap/fireball builds will be faster now.

huh ? I was referring to using flame sentinels as your spectres throughout any areas, them being the main damage source of a pure summoner.

they are the best spectres by far. they have augmented fireballs (fork or LMP) and inherent energy shield. plus they have good AI so they retreat when hit.

remote mine+conc effect is a great damage support combo for them. I used to use fast cast instead of conc effect but with damage nerf you really need max out that dps and both remote mine and conc effect supports are multiplicative

"

ixthUA wrote:

"

Baalat wrote:

Actually spectres dmg was not an issue. Problem was to keep them alive a.
That is why some people were using life leech on spectres
But now they may able to switch it for an offensive support skill?

I cannot imagine a summoner who would not use minion damage gem on spectre. What other offensive support gems would you use?

there are plenty of good offensive support gems for spectres: remote mine and conc effect already mentioned, but also GMP, chain, culling strike, faster cast, faster attack, added chaos dmg, etc. Personally I like chain and culling on my sentinels. Chain is lower dmg than conc effect but it is very useful clearing indoor maps

another way to go around the damage nerf is using some curses
I think for 0.11 I'll go with temp chains + projectile weakness
And on top of that will use 2x spork totem + elemental equilibrium + static blows as a 'third curse' (not taking any passives for spork dmg)

"

grepman wrote:

huh ? I was referring to using flame sentinels as your spectres throughout any areas, them being the main damage source of a pure summoner.

they are the best spectres by far. they have augmented fireballs (fork or LMP) and inherent energy shield. plus they have good AI so they retreat when hit.

remote mine+conc effect is a great damage support combo for them. I used to use fast cast instead of conc effect but with damage nerf you really need max out that dps and both remote mine and conc effect supports are multiplicative

I cannot know, but expect specters to do between 50% to 30% less damage. Do you still think it will be one of the strongest witch builds?

"

Baalat wrote:

there are plenty of good offensive support gems for spectres: remote mine and conc effect already mentioned, but also GMP, chain, culling strike, faster cast, faster attack, added chaos dmg, etc. Personally I like chain and culling on my sentinels. Chain is lower dmg than conc effect but it is very useful clearing indoor maps

another way to go around the damage nerf is using some curses
I think for 0.11 I'll go with temp chains + projectile weakness
And on top of that will use 2x spork totem + elemental equilibrium + static blows as a 'third curse' (not taking any passives for spork dmg)

Those support gems will not compensate the dps loss and are not usable with every specter, and more important mob damage nerf != spectre survivability buff. Spark and static blows were nerfed too, you probably won't be able to stack shock on mobs.

I still think summoners will still be very viable. The most important feature of the build is not the dps but the survivability which after the mob damage nerf would be even better.

I don't think you will see a significant drop in dps. Spectre more than 1 shots whites currently with a good multiplying setup.

This coming sat. am def rolling another summoner for the new leagues =D.

"

ixthUA wrote:

"

grepman wrote:

huh ? I was referring to using flame sentinels as your spectres throughout any areas, them being the main damage source of a pure summoner.

they are the best spectres by far. they have augmented fireballs (fork or LMP) and inherent energy shield. plus they have good AI so they retreat when hit.

remote mine+conc effect is a great damage support combo for them. I used to use fast cast instead of conc effect but with damage nerf you really need max out that dps and both remote mine and conc effect supports are multiplicative

I cannot know, but expect specters to do between 50% to 30% less damage. Do you still think it will be one of the strongest witch builds?

honestly I dont think the summoner is the best build even now, because its unreliable. you lose your spectres as a pure summoner, you have to go and re-pop them because you do no damage. and if you are half-summoner half-caster/melee/whatever, then you arent doing anything efficient/fast

builds that are being nerfed now- FP, EK, sporker- are all much more OP.

the greatness of summoners (besides the necro/pet army factor of course :)) is that they basically dont require godly or even great gear to dish out ridiculous damage that makes lots of maps an utter joke. all you need are the boots which are cheap as hell.

as such, they still will be very viable, especially with solo/mostly self-found/poorer contigent.
I doubt the nerf will be as bad as you said, and even then best spectres DPS is just silly.

"

mattc3303 wrote:

but the survivability which after the mob damage nerf would be even better.

but minions life will be nerfed. so minions life nerfed, that means if you use vitality, thats also nerfed, and life leech isnt doing much leech after damage nerf. all in all I expect survivability to remain about the same.

I dont think spectres have a lot of armor either, so determination wont help as much either.

Well all of this is just inference for now. We don't know how much minion survivability is going to be affected. We have to know how much hp and resist and def our current spectres have before patch in relation to mob damage than compare those values after the patch.

With these damage nerfs to spectre am thinking life on hit may be better,

This is going to be a nerf to minion instability too. I may spec out of it now and keep 33% of minion hp.

"

mattc3303 wrote:

Well all of this is just inference for now. We don't know how much minion survivability is going to be affected. We have to know how much hp and resist and def our current spectres have before patch in relation to mob damage than compare those values after the patch.

With these damage nerfs to spectre am thinking life on hit may be better,

This is going to be a nerf to minion instability too. I may spec out of it now and keep 33% of minion hp.

yeah I think minion instability was already borderline in endgame because it effectively removed 35% of your spectres life, now it might be the time to ditch it altogether.

and I agree - it's all speculation for now but never too early to plan ahead :)

PS as far as life on hit goes, it's a valid survavibility technique, but alas, it's useless for my precious sentinels as the fireballs are spells. life on hit will probably be great on tittybitches though.