Looting -- The official thread for discussing the loot system. Updated 18th March, 2013.

Behold the cycle of ignorance.

"

dodosuke wrote:

Well, just as i expected.Noone can answer my questions and prove me wrong.


Vooodu says ;

"

"Only hackers and scammers can steal you stuff. Items on the ground are not 'your stuff'.

That timer is yours... But onces the timer is gone. Guess what? Its anybodys."

Then why is there a timer that doesn't really help with anything ? Why is the looting system not pure ffa ?

Stop repeating horseshit over and over again and try reading my previous comments and answer them.
Only reason that you are avoiding my comments, shows you that you can't really go against anything i say logically.

Then the answer that always follows.

"

TremorAcePV wrote:

The current loot system does not distribute loot accordingly, it was made to give everyone a level playing field in a FFA loot system.

Meaning that it's intention was never to make sure the guy who's name was on the timer get the loot, but that no one should get it before he had a chance to.

Then the denial of the truth.

"

magicrectangle wrote:

It doesn't really matter whether they designed it to be a fair loot distribution system or not. What matters is that the majority of the community treats it that way. .

Like ive been saying. The majority of people complaning about loot are just whiney, stupid entitled brats. Im not trying to be a pick about it, but common.

They think loot timers means their 'property' and fail to understand its concept.

How is that anyone elses fault but theirs?


Ninja this and ninja that but they constantly fail to see all the facts. So, what ever.

While people who can't compete for loot due to actual physical problems i feel for. Everyone can keep on cryin' for what its worth. :D

Just so you know as for a new player, I have been totaly discouraged by the loot system. How is it that I dont deserve any loot when I am contributing the same way to the game as the others in the groop, yet it is decided that they have more money and therefore better computers/connection that i cant participate in the looting.
This game went for me into a "stupid diablo 3 drm allways online idiocy" thanks to the discriminating loot system. So dont expect me to see my credit card for and online game that i cant play in group.

"

Augino wrote:

Just so you know as for a new player, I have been totaly discouraged by the loot system. How is it that I dont deserve any loot when I am contributing the same way to the game as the others in the groop, yet it is decided that they have more money and therefore better computers/connection that i cant participate in the looting.

...Hey new player.


That loot on the ground is for every one. Not just you. Thats the 1st rule of POE fight club.

Play alone if you think you deserve anything.

Also, don't complain about shitty PCs. Its not anyone elses fault buy yours for not upgrading your PC. They have many other games other thier that would fit your needs and PC problems.

Thats they way it is...

"

Vooodu wrote:

"

Augino wrote:

Just so you know as for a new player, I have been totaly discouraged by the loot system. How is it that I dont deserve any loot when I am contributing the same way to the game as the others in the groop, yet it is decided that they have more money and therefore better computers/connection that i cant participate in the looting.

...Hey new player.


That loot on the ground is for every one. Not just you. Thats the 1st rule of POE fight club.

Play alone if you think you deserve anything.

Also, don't complain about shitty PCs. Its not anyone elses fault buy yours for not upgrading your PC. They have many other games other thier that would fit your needs and PC problems.

Thats they way it is...

Correct.

The botton line is... the new guy complaining about loot is whats wrong with games these days. Cater to poor scrubs and you get Diablo 3 in one week tops.

This game is already pushing the fine line of becoming Diablo 3 with no pvp toggle and no real world vs world pvp like diablo 2 had. Also the game needs to add town entrances that are not instanced like diablo 2 had when going into the Blood Moor.


Careful GGG your pushing your luck already.

"

Vooodu wrote:

Like ive been saying. The majority of people complaning about loot are just whiney, stupid entitled brats. Im not trying to be a pick about it, but common.

They think loot timers means their 'property' and fail to understand its concept.

How is that anyone elses fault but theirs?

If the vast majority of the player base fails to understand the system, is that because the vast majority of the players are stupid or "at fault," or is that because the system is poorly conceived/designed/implemented?

To borrow an example from urban planning, because it is something I know a bit about:

Suppose I design a park, and I put the sidewalks in some way that really makes sense to me, but the vast majority of people want to travel between two points which I haven't connected in a straight line via a sidwalk. So, they just walk across the grass, and wear a path down.

Are they failures for not understanding how the sidewalks work, or am I a failure for not recognizing the needs of the people I was designing for, and putting a freaking sidewalk there?

"

Vooodu wrote:

Like ive been saying. The majority of people complaning about loot are just whiney, stupid entitled brats. Im not trying to be a pick about it, but common.

they complain about the (in fact) half-arsed and contra-productive looting system or let's call it looting-philosopy, and just because you're diggin it doesn't mean it's good as it is now, a polished turd is still a turd you know?


sometimes also your current ping decides if you getting your loot or not, so it's often past game-design and also network and server dependent.

Not to mention, a ranged char risks his XP even more than a Melee just to get his loot in tight situations.

half-arsed and contra-productive, is still half-arsed and contra-productive, no matter if you like it or not.



I root also for two options: FFA or Instanced and we could finally move along.

Now you guys are just being excessively harsh.

You're right. But stating the truth will just hurt people at this point. Since it's obvious they will never learn.

Augino, the question is: Do you deserve loot?

You decide what the answer to that question is. If it's yes, get in there and get some loot. That's what you are supposed to do.

"

magicrectangle wrote:

If the vast majority of the player base fails to understand the system, is that because the vast majority of the players are stupid or "at fault," or is that because the system is poorly conceived/designed/implemented?

To borrow an example from urban planning, because it is something I know a bit about:

Suppose I design a park, and I put the sidewalks in some way that really makes sense to me, but the vast majority of people want to travel between two points which I haven't connected in a straight line via a sidwalk. So, they just walk across the grass, and wear a path down.

Are they failures for not understanding how the sidewalks work, or am I a failure for not recognizing the needs of the people I was designing for, and putting a freaking sidewalk there?

The Boldened part was important to me. This game was made for hardcore players by hardcore players, kind of a motto, I guess. It evolved beyond that, but not the point.

That, and the developers have said, explicitly, what the loot system is. FFA. If the masses can't get that, who's problem is it then?

And you are comparing apples to oranges, though they seem similar, they aren't really. Simply put, because the timer will serve it's purpose regardless, as long as the system works (it doesn't, not the point), but the sidewalk will only serve it's purpose if the people use it.

We get no choice in using the timer, so it's different.

And btw, where I get my understanding of the loot system is the following quote from Chris in the first post on this thread.

"

Chris wrote:

- The allocation time is intended to be very small (enough time to compensate for a little latency, reaction time and travel distance). We're thinking a base time of something in the order of 1 second when standing next to the item.
- The time would be increased by the time it takes for the character to run to the item. An item allocated to a ranged player might unallocate after two seconds, for example.
- It's important that the time is low enough that the player can only get the item if they are paying attention and make an effort to immediately grab it.

The bold part is what the timer is for. That's also where I got how the timer is allocated from. Chris said in this thread (use the GGG post button on the side of the forum to see the GGG posts) that who it's assigned to is random, but, there is no true random in computers, and, considering the timer's purpose and how it works, what I suggested makes the most sense for choosing who gets the allocation.

In optimal conditions, it is an allocated (shared) loot system. But only, exclusively, in optimal conditions. And even then, it's allocated to the people who are farthest away or lagging the most, or whatever combination of the two.

Optimal conditions don't exist in this world. So, either way, it's FFA.

Edit:

Further examples of what the loot system is...

"

Chris wrote:

Several legitimate problems with free-for-all looting were raised:
- Ranged players are unable to get to the items in time.
- Items might just get scooped up by one player with substantially lower latency than the other players.

Over the past few months we've thought long and hard about this topic, and have come up with a system that we feel captures the cut-throat feel that we're trying to go for, but helps mitigate the valid complaints.

That's in the same post. Immediately after he said it was originally FFA.

So, considering the boldened parts, I am left to assume that the only thing that changes between the original FFA and our current system (that post is 2 years old, and yet we have the same system as then... interesting) is the timer. That's the only change.

Since the timer is the only change, and the change was made to fix the "legitimate problems", then the change (timer) must be based on the problems (lag + distance).

That, and the system was originally FFA, and now it has a timer that was added to fix those two problems. No where, in that, does it imply sharing loot. Or allocation of loot. Or anything similar.

Thus, the loot system is not shared or allocated, but FFA with a timer to give everyone a level playing field in the FFA arena.

"

Vooodu wrote:

"

yastru wrote:

i complimented you on your immense intelligence and you are mentioning my mom in post. not cool dude, so not cool. reported

...You asked my age and claimed I was 13. I said ask your mom.

Sounds cool.



Cool people don't ask stupid questions like.. 'Whats your age 13"?

Then go cry to a mod when they don't like the answer.

:D


Also, cooool people don't cry about ninjas in a FFA game.

You need to regain perspective here, Vooodu. You are way out of line -- heck, this whole thread is a mess and we mods tend to treat it like some sort of neutral zone in which people can squabble meaninglessly. But yes, there have been complaints about you.

Your stance is valid and I personally agree with it. Your method of taking that stance is utterly disgraceful. What you've failed to remember is that just because someone doesn't agree with you doesn't mean they're 'bitches' or 'whiny'. That isn't tolerated here and you've been with this community long enough to know it. We turn a blind eye to this thread because we know that something has to be done about looting (not because it's wrong but because people won't shut up about it) and we know that there is much venting to be done.

You are not venting anymore. You are abusing.

Five days timeout for you to catch your breath, maybe play the game for a bit and generally cure you of this forum myopia.

"

Charan wrote:

"

Vooodu wrote:

"

yastru wrote:

i complimented you on your immense intelligence and you are mentioning my mom in post. not cool dude, so not cool. reported

...You asked my age and claimed I was 13. I said ask your mom.

Sounds cool.



Cool people don't ask stupid questions like.. 'Whats your age 13"?

Then go cry to a mod when they don't like the answer.

:D


Also, cooool people don't cry about ninjas in a FFA game.

You need to regain perspective here, Vooodu. You are way out of line -- heck, this whole thread is a mess and we mods tend to treat it like some sort of neutral zone in which people can squabble meaninglessly. But yes, there have been complaints about you.

Your stance is valid and I personally agree with it. Your method of taking that stance is utterly disgraceful. What you've failed to remember is that just because someone doesn't agree with you doesn't mean they're 'bitches' or 'whiny'. That isn't tolerated here and you've been with this community long enough to know it. We turn a blind eye to this thread because we know that something has to be done about looting (not because it's wrong but because people won't shut up about it) and we know that there is much venting to be done.

You are not venting anymore. You are abusing.

Five days timeout for you to catch your breath, maybe play the game for a bit and generally cure you of this forum myopia.

saw a mod post and thought finally, finally someone from ggg is gonna give some input to a 600 page thread where so many people have expressed the want for change. But no, this elephant just gets fatter and fatter.