Looting -- The official thread for discussing the loot system. Updated 18th March, 2013.

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Pinchyskree wrote:
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mibuwolf wrote:
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Vooodu wrote:
For me, i noitce about 1 in 10 games has some sort of whiney "PLAY THE GAME MY WAY" title...Which i avoid like the plague. I can't stand crying...


For once I agree. :/



Loot rules could be good for this game though. Unless there is a better compromise that wouldn't affect either party directly from losing/gaining something.


It's called an option.

Most of the people here seem to forget that and just "fight for their side" because they want to "win" on the internet.



Options ....ok?

I want the option to play with 0% magic find but get drops as if i had 1000% magic find on.


I want all monsters simple to beat. I want a toggle for monster health.... I just want options.




I want instant respec... I just want options..

I want to be able to use mods, i just want options.


See, just because you want options it doesn't mean anyone cares. In the end all your options just confuse everyone and ruins the game.

All you people crying for options need to come together and make a simple, viable solution. Key word is simple. Put down the SUPER nerd crybaby way of thinking, be cool and simple.

So far its all been a cluster $&^$ of nothing. Even i have come up with a better 'simple' solution for instanced loot then most of you people complaining about options have.




strawmans galore in the right above post ^
dont bother
Last edited by mobutu#5362 on Feb 19, 2013, 3:10:54 PM
I'm just gonna repost this from ~80 pages ago.

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TremorAcePV wrote:
This is just a simplification of what I've said so far. Note that these two suggestions are separate.

About my suggestion that ranged should not get special treatment,

Right now, Ranged>Melee due to survivability. If we made it so that melee get first dibs at loot, then it would more fair.

Melee is forced to fight on the front lines and thereby has less survivability, but at the same time is closest to drop loot. I find that perfectly fair.

Ranged can fire from afar, relatively safe, but has less time to get loot that drops. Fair as well, imo.

To choose melee over ranged means better loot at the cost of survivability, whereas ranged would mean better survivability at the cost of loot.

That's for groups. Ranged would still be great for Solo, whereas Melee would not.

As for my other suggestion,

Basically, loot doesn't appear (it drops, but can't be seen or picked up) until all monsters in an instance are dead.

That fixes the following problems:
Looting while fighting - Breaks up combat, which isn't fun for most players.
Lag - Everyone is just as oblivious to items off screen as the rest of their groups. Bosses and areas where the last monster is killed are the exceptions.
Ninja's - Everyone has just as much chance to find a good drop as the rest. Since everyone starts at the same time, it's fair. Where you are at the time is up to you. Fair.
Melee and Ranged aren't distinguished.

^^^Every problem the current loot system has (minus entitlement)

The only problem I can see is:
Movement speed stackers and skills that make movement faster/easier. But that's no different than build choice imo.

Added to that suggestion:

It can be an option, when making a public group to make it so that when the last monster is killed, it becomes open PVP and the last man standing gets the loot. Loot can't be picked up until this is over. Very cut throat. Purely player choice to join/create the group though.

Now, when the last monster is killed, the instance would be locked so that only the players in it when that happens are the only ones who can go to it. Preventing people from ninja-ing from recently cleared instances.


It fixes all the problems and gives everyone what they want. Devs want to make it cut throat in some form, the mad scramble for loot at the end (and the PVP option) allow this. The players have all the current issues with play fixed.

It's also simple to iterate. Just make loot invisible and unclickable until all enemies are dead. A lot simpler than most other suggestions.

Edit: After thinking about it, the only other problem might be speed.

The devs, for whatever reason, don't like to slow the game down at all (one mentioned this as a reason they don't increase the timers). This would cause people to go back through the entire instance for gear, which can be time consuming, depending on the instance.

I still think it'd make it worth it to fix all the current problems though. It could be a better medium while we keep searching for a better loot system model.

Edit 2: And after more thought, I don't think players having to run through the instance for loot would be a bad thing.

Slower gameplay usually means boring gameplay. That's likely why they didn't want to slow people down with timers. Waiting on a timer to go off can get boring and annoying if there are lots of them.

Now, can you call running through a map for loot boring? It's like a scavenger hunt. Exciting in what you might and do find. :P
Last edited by TremorAcePV#7356 on Feb 19, 2013, 3:28:03 PM
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mobutu wrote:
strawmans galore in the right above post ^
dont bother



Im just speaking the truth buddy.

Deal with it.

And also promoting theft and defending it doesn't make you a hardcore player.

If you want to know what hardcore means, I suggest you go play diablo 2 hardcore.

That is my answer to all people who say "GO PLAY DIABLO 3 IF YOU DONT WANT FFA YOU WEAKASS".
Last edited by dodosuke#6531 on Feb 19, 2013, 3:47:36 PM
I think the main issue is the fact that sometimes you click an item, you get up to it on your screen before timer runs out, but you don't pick it up because of a block or something. That's really what needs to be addressed in my opinion.
One other thing about the whole "What do the devs think?" regarding how the game should be:

This was on the "Don't post any more loot thread" thread. Name paraphrased since I forget things quickly sometimes.
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BrianWeissman wrote:

Hey guys, just wanted to throw in my feedback on this issue. We're well aware there there are a lot of different opinions about contested loot in POE, and while we're pretty happy with the current implementation, it is far from set in stone.

Fundamentally, POE is a game about tough choices, about making your way in a harsh world with few initial resources. This is a theme that runs through the whole game, from the starting areas, to the cryptic early NPCs, to the lack of respecs, and the quickly ramping difficulty. Having quasi-FFA loot definitely falls right in line with the general cutthroat, competitive aesthetic of Wraeclast.

However, we pay a lot of attention to feedback, and we absolutely recognize that the current system is pretty brutal on some players, especially new players, or those with slower connections of computers. I know exactly how it feels to have loot snagged out from under your nose, having played Diablo 2 for many many years. It's a frustrating experience that often makes you question why you're even playing in the first place.

Conversely, in a good group that has some basic "gentleman's rules", the current FFA-timer implementation VASTLY speeds up the pace of game play. We've tinkered around with a lot of different loot timers, and we've found that when we extend them, even by a little bit, the pace of the game drags considerably. You want to just be moving along all the time, going from pack to pack, blowing stuff up. The last thing you want to be doing is standing around every time some stuff dies, waiting for all your little bars to decay.

When everyone agrees to play by a fundamental set of rules, be they real "FFA" or "leave stuff alone that's not yours", the loot tends to average out pretty well anyway. Groups can also verbally punish or shame a player who appears to be abusing the drop system, and you do decide who you party with.


Ultimately, we believe that having an FFA-based system is good for the general health of the game. When you play in a group with completely player-bound, invisible-to-others loot like Diablo 3 or Torchlight 2, you really get the feeling that you're playing in a bubble. The other players with you might as well be bots, and there is little shared or vicarious joy in lucky stuff that drops. That's something we're definitely trying to avoid.

POE has proven to be extremely popular since our Open Beta release, far popular than we could have expected, and so we're obviously catering to a pretty wide audience. A certain portion of that audience is put off by the cutthroat nature of loot distribution in the game, and we're not deaf to those concerns. This is an issue that is going to be going through a lot of internal discussion in the weeks and months ahead.

Thanks for the understanding and for the great feedback. I really appreciate all the time people have taken to post here, as well as their passion for the game!


A forum mod posted this with a link to the Reddit where he said this. Now, I boldened the important parts regarding what the game is going towards. The Reddit post is 20 days old.

This is particularly towards Wrathmar as I don't feel like quoting him.

Edit: And I stand by my suggestion. It's the best option imo.
Last edited by TremorAcePV#7356 on Feb 19, 2013, 3:50:48 PM
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TheuberClips wrote:
I think the main issue is the fact that sometimes you click an item, you get up to it on your screen before timer runs out, but you don't pick it up because of a block or something. That's really what needs to be addressed in my opinion.


Agreed.

If we could grab loot without the need to stand next to it, that would fix this issue. Notably when a major boss drops a big raimbow of items, it's insane one itemword is up while the item actually is at the bottom, for example. Also, summoners are not really welcome in party play, when zombies block your path to loot it becomes even worse.
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When everyone agrees to play by a fundamental set of rules, be they real "FFA" or "leave stuff alone that's not yours", the loot tends to average out pretty well anyway. Groups can also verbally punish or shame a player who appears to be abusing the drop system, and you do decide who you party with.

Ultimately, we believe that having an FFA-based system is good for the general health of the game. When you play in a group with completely player-bound, invisible-to-others loot like Diablo 3 or Torchlight 2, you really get the feeling that you're playing in a bubble. The other players with you might as well be bots, and there is little shared or vicarious joy in lucky stuff that drops. That's something we're definitely trying to avoid.



Why would I want to see which boss dropped what loot to X player, If I wanted to know it, I would simply ask.I don't see how that makes me feel that I'm playing in a bubble.Why would I even wanna loot another person's item in the first place ? That is his item, why would I wanna steal it ? It's like "I want to know how much money this guy earns and I want to steal some of it"


In addition to that, since you can't see who looted what, the arguement about this :
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"Groups can also verbally punish or shame a player who appears to be abusing the drop system, and you do decide who you party with."
is invalid too.
Last edited by dodosuke#6531 on Feb 19, 2013, 3:58:14 PM
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SkullMasher wrote:
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TheuberClips wrote:
I think the main issue is the fact that sometimes you click an item, you get up to it on your screen before timer runs out, but you don't pick it up because of a block or something. That's really what needs to be addressed in my opinion.


Agreed.

If we could grab loot without the need to stand next to it, that would fix this issue. Notably when a major boss drops a big raimbow of items, it's insane one itemword is up while the item actually is at the bottom, for example. Also, summoners are not really welcome in party play, when zombies block your path to loot it becomes even worse.


This man gets it. Allow us to filter what is shown and you will still have the same feel without sacrificing the pay attention aspect of the FFA loot

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