Looting -- The official thread for discussing the loot system. Updated 18th March, 2013.

"

mibuwolf wrote:

You aren't making great arguments buddy. You don't want people to avoid making a group just because they play a ranged class.

In other words, arguments like "Deal with it..." do not hold.

I'll simplify my argument for ignoring ranged players disadvantage at getting loot.

If we leave it as is, we are making it so that people will not want to be melee characters. It's a two way street.

This suggestion would mean you have two choices for these reasons:
Melee - Better chance at getting loot, but you are more likely to die.
Ranged - Better survivability but a worse chance at getting loot.

Right now, there's no reason to choose Melee over Ranged, other than personal preference.

There's no reason to choose a group over solo either, since the loot system isn't good enough yet (us discussing it proves that).

"

DisorderedMind wrote:

"

Vooodu wrote:

^Tooo damn complicated... Seriously. Listen to yourself.

If you can't describe how instanced loot should work in ONE single sentence you have already made it tooooo damn complicated. Your post is almost insane.

Im tellin' ya. A simple toggle at the character select screen for single player loot to drop. Its simple... Its easy and its not stupid.

Yeah...right, its the pure genius talking, because you add a button to the GUI, a fairy coding princess is going to come an rewrite the current system to allow the managment of shared / and individual player environment instances.

Alone the task of adding a button to the GUI, reading out its value and act accordingly is more work than the probable two liner enabling names to stay on labels.

Get yourself a book about design patterns and tell me then in one sentence how the instanced mechanism is supposed to work, how to deal with desyncs /DCs, how to define the garbage collector cleaning up the instanced item mess.

You should rather focus your energy on coming up with something bright, about "loot tension" and how to add competition in some other way.

And as i said, the further discussion is pointless as any fully instanced / fully allocated system with no competition involved contradicts GGGs baselines.

What part of my simple sentence confuses you?

The part where "Only Single Player Loot Drops"?

My god man, you just make everything complicated. You even try to make my solutin complicated as hell. When in fact is not.



Drops are the same as playing alone...Even when playing with others. How is that so complicated?...


..lol

"

mobutu wrote:

if so, than whats the point of making a ranged toon?
if so, then whats the point of ranged toon being in game?
if they cant get the loot, whats the point of having them?

I have a ranged 'character'..

Its called speed and speed flasks. I can snatch a drop faster than anyone if i choose too.

Just sayin'..

This is just a simplification of what I've said so far. Note that these two suggestions are separate.

About my suggestion that ranged should not get special treatment,

Right now, Ranged>Melee due to survivability. If we made it so that melee get first dibs at loot, then it would more fair.

Melee is forced to fight on the front lines and thereby has less survivability, but at the same time is closest to drop loot. I find that perfectly fair.

Ranged can fire from afar, relatively safe, but has less time to get loot that drops. Fair as well, imo.

To choose melee over ranged means better loot at the cost of survivability, whereas ranged would mean better survivability at the cost of loot.

That's for groups. Ranged would still be great for Solo, whereas Melee would not.

As for my other suggestion,

Basically, loot doesn't appear (it drops, but can't be seen or picked up) until all monsters in an instance are dead.

That fixes the following problems:
Looting while fighting - Breaks up combat, which isn't fun for most players.
Lag - Everyone is just as oblivious to items off screen as the rest of their groups, bosses and areas where the last monster is killed, the exceptions.
Ninja's - Everyone has just as much chance to find a good drop as the rest. Since everyone starts at the same time, it's fair.
Melee and Ranged aren't distinguished.

^^^Every problem the current loot system has (minus entitlement)

The only problem I can see is:
Movement speed stackers and skills that make movement faster/easier. But that's no different than build choice imo.

Added to that suggestion:

It can be an option, when making a public group to make it so that when the last monster is killed, it becomes open PVP and the last man standing gets the loot. Loot can't be picked up until this is over. Very cut throat. Purely player choice to join/create the group though.

Now, when the last monster is killed, the instance would be locked so that only the players in it when that happens are the only ones who can go to it. Preventing people from ninja-ing from recently cleared instances.

"

mibuwolf wrote:

You don't want people to avoid making a group just because they play a ranged class.

That's the thing, people are already doing that, for the reasons I listed above as being the current problems with the loot system. I'm offering a suggestion to fix them.

Obviously have small chances of this tiny comment of mine being noticed, but what about making loot invisible to others until the timer expires? That would stop the Loot-Hoard problem of 4 players blocking you from your drop until the timer expires, yet once an item is visible to you its FFA to click reguardless at that point.

1. It rolled as your item - Get it.
2. The other party member has failed to collect the item, so it is now visible to all and can be taken.

A recurring theme in many of these posts is based on how someone feels loot is earned. If you are by yourself loot is earned by defeating the mobs. In a party with friends loot is earned by defeating the mobs. In public games loot is earned by defeating the mobs AND by getting to the piece of loot first.

Does that make public games more difficult? Ya in a way it does, but it doesn't feel like a consistent and good way to make the game difficult to all players. It feels strange to all of the sudden have a new requirement to earn your loot simply by joining a public game. People don't see the point in doing it when they could gain all advantages and more fun (In their opinion) in private parties with friends. Not only do you not have to fight over the loot but you also work together as a team a lot better. Less deaths due to greediness. Private parties are by far the easiest way to play the game. Where is the downside for them? People continue to preach that public games needs a downside for being easier right?

"

iamstryker wrote:

In public games loot is earned by defeating the mobs AND by getting to the piece of loot first.

And that's the problem, a large amount of the people posting in this thread completely disagree with that. When I party up I am part of a team, we're working together to defeat the boss/instance. I am not joining a party to play loot whack a mole, which involves me having to stop fighting to pick up items mid fight.

"

MrH wrote:

"

iamstryker wrote:

In public games loot is earned by defeating the mobs AND by getting to the piece of loot first.

And that's the problem, a large amount of the people posting in this thread completely disagree with that. When I party up I am part of a team, we're working together to defeat the boss/instance. I am not joining a party to play loot whack a mole, which involves me having to stop fighting to pick up items mid fight.

Ding ding ding.

Than perhaps you should find a team.

"

mobutu wrote:

"

arare wrote:

As someone who has the luxury of playing in both 30 v 300-500+ ping games, the difference is massive. It stupid and ridiculous how much of a difference it makes
Standing right over an item, clicking it for 2-3 seconds and not picking it up. Nothing happens. This happens over and over again. I tried it for over a 2 weeks. It is not your 0.3 second difference.

Same experience here, tested with the absolute worst ping and its just stupid.
The timer isnt finished, you click-keep-long-on-it and still dont get it.
massive indeed.
with good ping have no problems. with worst ping i rarely get something.

^Same problem i have as well, discourages public play for me. Solo all the way until i'm bored of it. Other than this the game is pretty amazing.