Looting -- The official thread for discussing the loot system. Updated 18th March, 2013.

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DestroTheGod wrote:

Whenever GGG implements league systems, allow me to make a permanent league where I can cancel FFA loot. I would pay $10 for that, immediately, on the spot, like BAM, done. Well only if I could transfer my current character out of default into it.

I can safely say the latter won't happen.

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Vooodu wrote:

So a toggle option at character select for single player instanced loot in ALL games is diffcult understand?


Think about it.... Single player drops. SINGLE... PLAYER.... DROPS.

As in you get the same loot as if you played alone...When you play with others.


Sorry, didn't mean to blow your mind with such a simple solution. :D



lmao.

It was the way to make loot instanced, how it should be hidden from other players etc, not how and where to toggle it, that was being discussed when you jumped in with your brilliant insight to "just add a toggle".

It's like 2 people discussing building a bridge over a river and you come in and tell them to stop being complicated and just build it so tah tit crosses the water!

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Vooodu wrote:

Just like in D2. I never farmed with pubs. I leveld with pubs for fun.

I get a TON more stuff farming alone doing a run or two in what ever area i choose. Pubs games are just for fun and leveling and thats it.


I guess its about mind over matter...

It's about being intelligent enough to ask why it is that way.

Fully instanced is no option and it differs from allocation of items, by the internal mechanisms needed, the needed work effort and how items affect the otherwise healthy ingame economy. Been said and explained too often to repeat.
Its not a matter of adding a checkbox to the GUI and then everything else is just miraculously done.

The really simple solution would be:
-let the names on allocated loot stay.

Each party can set their individual rules by naming FFA or LootPerName enforce them if needed per kick.

The reason why not even this might be considered by the devs, is that they want some sort of competition regarding the loot. Its in the first post and in the destructoid interview.
They dont want loot to be handed to you just as a reward for your progress through the areas.
thus any fully instanced/ allocated loot wont work for them.
they want loot tension. the only problem is, that their way doing so is a rather poor design choice, adding more problems than it solves.

the current system defys its own purpose, as it only affects public parties.
ppl playing the game with friends, have no loot tension at all, if they play by gentleman rules.
singleplayer is aswell no subject to "loot tension".
this may still be true for any future loot system.
this is what makes the idea of loot tension so illogical, its not affecting the whole game.
EDIT: on the other hand, you might be busy enough in singleplayer, so you dont need extra tension...

atm everyone who doesnt want this human clickbot feast in public parties is forced to cope with the crap, if they dont want to hide away in SP for all times.

to come up with an actual alternative, worth to be considered by the devs, we have to redefine their "loot tension" by adding a different kind of competition to the game.

it has to fix and include
-FFA, meaning some sort of competition PvP regarding loot
-allocation of items, so the first point makes sense. why battle over how you get loot, if someone can still just wait and steal it afterwards.

-gamestyle compensation: ranged chars
-connection issues

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Sickness wrote:

It was the way to make loot instanced, how it should be hidden from other players etc, not how and where to toggle it, that was being discussed when you jumped in with your brilliant insight to "just add a toggle".

It's like 2 people discussing building a bridge over a river and you come in and tell them to stop being complicated and just build it so tah tit crosses the water!

"

Vooodu wrote:

Just like in D2. I never farmed with pubs. I leveld with pubs for fun.

I get a TON more stuff farming alone doing a run or two in what ever area i choose. Pubs games are just for fun and leveling and thats it.


I guess its about mind over matter...

It's about being intelligent enough to ask why it is that way.

...Ok then. Keep asking for things that will never happen and make NO sense at all.

I give you the easiest solution that would make instanced loot easy to work. Id take it and run with it.

Not shun it.



And really im intelligent enough to understand how the game really works.

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DisorderedMind wrote:

Fully instanced is no option and it differs from allocation of items, by the internal mechanisms needed, the needed work effort and how items affect the otherwise healthy ingame economy. Been said and explained too often to repeat.
Its not a matter of adding a checkbox to the GUI and then everything else is just miraculously done.

The really simple solution would be:
-let the names on allocated loot stay.

Each party can set their individual rules by naming FFA or LootPerName enforce them if needed per kick.

The reason why not even this might be considered by the devs, is that they want some sort of competition regarding the loot. Its in the first post and in the destructoid interview.
They dont want loot to be handed to you just as a reward for your progress through the areas.
thus any fully instanced/ allocated loot wont work for them.
they want loot tension. the only problem is, that their way doing so is a rather poor design choice, adding more problems than it solves.

the current system defys its own purpose, as it only affects public parties.
ppl playing the game with friends, have no loot tension at all, if they play by gentleman rules.
singleplayer is aswell no subject to "loot tension".
this may still be true for any future loot system.
this is what makes the idea of loot tension so illogical, its not affecting the whole game.

so everyone who doesnt want this human clickbot feast in public parties is forced to cope with the crap, if they dont want to hide away in SP for all times.

to come up with an actual alternative, worth to be considered by the devs, we have to redefine their "loot tension" by adding a different kind of competition to the game.

it has to fix and include
-FFA, meaning some sort of competition PvP regarding loot
-allocation of items, so the first point makes sense. why battle over how you get loot, if someone can still just wait and steal it afterwards.

-gamestyle compensation: ranged chars
-connection issues

^Tooo damn complicated... Seriously. Listen to yourself.

If you can't describe how instanced loot should work in ONE single sentence you have already made it tooooo damn complicated. Your post is almost insane.


Im tellin' ya. A simple toggle at the character select screen for single player loot to drop. Its simple... Its easy and its not stupid.

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Vooodu wrote:

^Tooo damn complicated... Seriously. Listen to yourself.

If you can't describe how instanced loot should work in ONE single sentence you have already made it tooooo damn complicated. Your post is almost insane.

Im tellin' ya. A simple toggle at the character select screen for single player loot to drop. Its simple... Its easy and its not stupid.

Yeah...right, its the pure genius talking, because you add a button to the GUI, a fairy coding princess is going to come an rewrite the current system to allow the managment of shared / and individual player environment instances.

Alone the task of adding a button to the GUI, reading out its value and act accordingly is more work than the probable two liner enabling names to stay on labels.

Get yourself a book about design patterns and tell me then in one sentence how the instanced mechanism is supposed to work, how to deal with desyncs /DCs, how to define the garbage collector cleaning up the instanced item mess.

You should rather focus your energy on coming up with something bright, about "loot tension" and how to add competition in some other way.

And as i said, the further discussion is pointless as any fully instanced / fully allocated system with no competition involved contradicts GGGs baselines.

I got a solution for the FFA loot system. Just get rid of the timer period. If it has my name on it it should be mine.
The FFA loot system doesn't make it cutthroat. It just makes loot poaching campers happy. It is also just killing the pug party system. No pug for me.

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tat0010 wrote:

I got a solution for the FFA loot system. Just get rid of the timer period. If it has my name on it it should be mine.
The FFA loot system doesn't make it cutthroat. It just makes loot poaching campers happy. It is also just killing the pug party system. No pug for me.

That's the thing, the way they made the system, your name on it doesn't make it yours.

That's to give you a fair chance to get the object since you are farthest away/highest ping or, simply put, you have the lowest chance of getting loot in general.

If the person with the lowest chance of getting the item is given a "head start" to get it, this will make it fair for everyone. That was the idea anyway. It failed.

Edit: Not to say that's necessarily a bad thing. We (the community) and them (the devs) are looking for a solution. Us giving feedback and them mulling it over.

I just think they should move the loot system back to what it was, true FFA, UNTIL they figure out a better way of doing things.

The OP of the quote in this message is a good example of what is bad about the current loot system. Entitlement. Which leads to pissy players, which leads to a pissy community. True FFA would be distruptive at first, but things would go back to normal. Then we wait for a better solution while giving out advice.

Simple as that, imo.

FFA loot isn't "cut throat", it's just annoying. All it does is promote ninja looting while the rest of the party actually play the game. I shouldn't have to stop fighting mobs just so I can get some loot from the run.

If I could wave a wand I would implement 100% instanced loot as it's just much better IMO, it was one of the few things D3 actually did right. If FFA is here to stay (honestly I don't see why it would be though), then some changes need to be made. At the very least loot shouldn't be visible to other players until the timer has ran out, which will stop people getting ready to ninja a good item.

I would also like to see the option to disable white items reimplemented, there's just too much rubbish on the floor in a full party, obviously some useful items would need a re-color(maps etc).

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MrH wrote:

FFA loot isn't "cut throat", it's just annoying. All it does is promote ninja looting while the rest of the party actually play the game. I shouldn't have to stop fighting mobs just so I can get some loot from the run.

This is a valid concern, but what I dont' think you realize is that, to the devs, getting that loot IS PART OF THE GAME. This is what is defined as cut throat. You either stop and get your stuff, or others will steal it. They could do it in a better way, which is why everyone is pissy.

See, they want it to be cut throat, but at the same time, they want it to be fair in the sense that lag among other things that humans can't particularly control doesn't get in the way. Or that since ranged players are forced in the back due to the game's difficulty, they aren't severely disadvantaged in getting loot either.

They don't want you to get free loot, but at the same time, they don't want you disadvantaged because of your internet connection or play style (the latter, to me, being unnecessary).

That's what this discussion is about. Figuring out how we walk the line between those two things.

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MrH wrote:

If I could wave a wand I would implement 100% instanced loot as it's just much better IMO, it was one of the few things D3 actually did right. If FFA is here to stay (honestly I don't see why it would be though), then some changes need to be made. At the very least loot shouldn't be visible to other players until the timer has ran out, which will stop people getting ready to ninja a good item.

That's the exact opposite of what they want for this game. Read what I wrote above. Your name on it doesn't make it yours. That's to account for your lag and distance from loot so you aren't disadvantaged by circumstance, but at the same time, not entitled to loot.

That's where the confusion lies in all this. People think their name on it makes it theirs. The devs have said otherwise.

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MrH wrote:

I would also like to see the option to disable white items reimplemented, there's just too much rubbish on the floor in a full party, obviously some useful items would need a re-color(maps etc).

Eh, I wouldn't agree with that. You could miss a Chromatic item, or something else equally cool. I check every item, simply because I know an Orb of Alchemy can make a white item beautiful. That's just personal opinion though.