Looting -- The official thread for discussing the loot system. Updated 18th March, 2013.

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iamstryker wrote:

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SL4Y3R wrote:

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iamstryker wrote:

Ya seriously. If there is an obvious answer to my question then just say it.

If your only seeing your own loot then what would be the problem with it being exactly the same as single player?

The entire options argument for instanced loot is based on the premise that loot values would stay the same vs FFA. If the party loot mechanics wouldn't stay the same, in a 6 man party 250% more loot would drop in instances. That insanity.

An option to change it to instanced does not give you the right to more loot. You will see A LOT less than solo. That's a fact.

I just personally don't see it as more loot if its the same as when I solo.

What is the logic behind FFA having less loot anyhow? Is it because you clear faster? Maybe the enemies should be more difficult. Is it because the screen would be too covered with items? Thats not a problem with instanced.

Screw FFA. Besides the idea that its not fair to FFA players I don't see why instanced loot SHOULD have less than solo. The draw back to coop should always be tougher monsters not less loot.

I agree if GGG wants to penalize the non-FFA options it should be done by increasing the strength of the monsters. With a group of six you can steamroll through everything anyway.

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SL4Y3R wrote:

Instead of 5 items, it would be around 2.

Well, it would be between 58.33% to 75% for groups between 6 to 2 players.
So instead of 5 items drop from solo play there'll be between 3 (rounded from 2.92) to 4 (rounded from 3.75) items in a instanced loot system of 6 to 2 players party.

This is why I believe this wouldnt be a problem for the people that are the real target of an instanced loot system aka the people that already play solo and are familiar with less drops and no screen clutter.
Yeah, it would be a real problem for ffa supporters which are familiar with loot pinatas of ~20-30 items drop per unique boss in a 6 players party. But they wouldnt play instanced anyway because ffa and those big loot pinatas will still be available in the game.

And dont forget, instanced is the extreme of ffa, we have a multitude of greyish solutions inbetween.

And if some topics pop up proposing higher drops in the party instanced loot system, the answer for this would be really practical then:
-choose ffa-option when partying.
The total number of drops would be the same in instanced and ffa, but in the ffa system you have the chance of getting more than your instanced-share (by depriving other party members of loot - they would obviously get less if you get more) or have the risk of getting less than your instanced-share (by being deprived of loot by other party members - they would obviously get more if you get less).

People would have a real choice, let them choose accordingly with their real life personality/principles.
Don't force a gentleman into being a jerk and don't force a jerk into being a gentleman!

Non FFA loot should never be of a better quality than FFA loot.

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SL4Y3R wrote:

A group of strangers =/= team.

Well, a group of strangers get together, right? So they form a party of 2-6.
Why would they get together? Because they have a common goal (aka kill piety, farm, get xp etc).
I say if they have a common goal then that party of 2-6 becomes a team of 2-6.
And when the team reaches the common goal, therefore getting the reward/benefit, theres no team in the world that rewards only 1 or a couple or several team members.
They all get a fair share of the reward. Its their right.

So yeah, i say: a group of strangers having the same goal == team

GGG, pls change that terrible loot-system!
NOT everything which is "old school" is good!

Grouping with randoms is impossible if you are looking for loot.
Every good item will me ninja'ed...

That sucks!

Is it so hard to change the timer to 30 seconds?!?

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xXSylarXx wrote:

Is it so hard to change the timer to 30 seconds?!?

I would rather instanced loot. Item rarity and item value doesn't correlate. You don't have timers on white chromatic items, six sockets, six links etc. Also 30s timer doesn't solve items out visual borders. And I don't want to see 1000 items, if I can loot only 1/6 of them. Why would I?

I understand that it is just my preference. So loot distribution options would be the best.

I will never ever ever ever ever group with random people with a drop system like this. I know this games all about having a raging erection for D2 but some stuff should stay in the past.

Oh and I'm melee so this utterly stupid loot system would benefit me greatly in random group play.

Mobutu got the #s correct. On average it would be between 3-4.

However, you're not being penalized for it being instanced. This is the same way it works in the current implementation of the loot system. Solo loot gets you the most loot, since each additional person in a party gets only a 50% IIQ bonus. Therefore, compared to solo its always less.

If it was the same as solo, everyone would pick the instanced option because you would get more loot per player, and this WOULD affect the economy. This part is not even up for debate.

If an option were ever to make its way into the game, the bonus for instanced would have to be the exact same, or less than, the.bonus for FFA. Not more.

My opinion on shared loot:

Pro:
Encourages team-play because people have access to more loot.
Loot that one player is not interested in some other player can pick very quick without the need of trading.
Stealing might be fun to some players.

Con:
Conflicts over loot may lead to team breakup.
Ninja gameplay is more rewarding then killing a lot of mobs.
Ranged characters are penalized because they are not in pickup range.
Bad connection == bad loot.


My opinion on loot timers:

Pro:
People with bad connection or Ranged characters have a chance to pickup loot.
less ninjas.

Con:
Assigned loot leads to more conflicts when timers run out "hey that was mine!"
Short timers draw attention away from the fight.
Long timers slow down game.



My prefered Solution:
Unassigned loot timers:
-Short loot timer appears without name, Every player that clicks on it assinges his name, after timer runs out item is randomly assigned to one of the players that clicked on it.

Pros:
Players don't feel automaticly entitled to some loot -> less conflicts
Players don't need to run for their loot and stop fighting. -> faster and more fair team-play
Loot-timers dont have to be longer and slow down game because you only have to click once.

Con:
? dunno please comment

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SL4Y3R wrote:

Solo loot gets you the most loot, since each additional person in a party gets only a 50% IIQ bonus. Therefore, compared to solo its always less.

If it was the same as solo, everyone would pick the instanced option because you would get more loot per player, and this WOULD affect the economy. This part is not even up for debate.

If an option were ever to make its way into the game, the bonus for instanced would have to be the exact same, or less, than the bonus for FFA. Not more.

This is correct and I agree with you.
With the mention that the additional 50% (or whatever the number will be in the future because of ggg balancing reasons) IIQ bonus per party member should be the same no matter the loot system used. No more, no less.