Looting -- The official thread for discussing the loot system. Updated 18th March, 2013.

I'm sure other people have said this over and over, but my biggest issues with FFA looting is that
1) People with faster computers and internet connections have an unfair advantage.
This has nothing to do with "skill". Clicking an item on the ground isn't skillful. It's just a single click on a box. I don't know why people find it so attractive. The adrenaline rush is nice and all, but having my own loot drop that's good also gives me a rush, because loot is important to me, not just because I can click on it before someone else, but because good loot improves my experience (this extends into my second point). But my computer isn't very powerful, so it takes extra time for me to get my cursor over the item and click successfully. Sure, with few enemies and allies around it's not bad, but when models and animations are going on all over the place, it gets really bad really fast.
People being able to take my items due to better computers/connections is equivalent to the game having a pay2win element. I thought GGG was apposed to this line of thinking. The RMAH is the worst thing about D3, and so far the FFA looting is the worst thing for me in POE.

2) I don't like the idea that allies in my own party can negatively influence my experience to such a degree, and I'm given NO option to avoid it, besides trying to click faster. You can say things like "oh it's more cut throat and I personally like it" or "only party with people you trust" but that just ignores the real issue for players like me. It makes the game less social, makes me want to avoid partying most of the time. Who cares if I can clear a boss quicker if I have to worry about my team mates being greedy backstabbers the whole time? I don't, at least not if getting good items is a priority (usually, it is). I only feel like partying, really, is as a last option when I'm frustrated enough to deal with jerks just to beat a boss. I'm basically being punished for wanting to party up and share the good experience with others, unless I personally know them. It drags the gameplay away from killing and toward item clicking, which I really didn't think POE was all about.

3) The players who are the most adamant toward FFA loot (which i'm convinced is the vocal minority) can't seem to argue against instanced loot without using childish terms like "care bears", or throwing in strawman arguments, ad hominems, and silly slippery slope arguments that ignore the hypocrisy of the matter. If a player wants a completely hardcore experience in a game, that's fine. Let them have it. That shouldn't mean the whole game needs to be based around that one premise of "let's make this as realistic and hardcore as we can", because a game about magic and zombies and monsters is NOT a realistic premise. It's a compromise between what's real and what makes a game fun for players. If the players who love FFA loot can't deal with compromise when it won't even inhibit their gameplay to nearly the same degree as those against FFA loot, then they obviously only have their own wants in mind. Not a good reflection on the community as a whole. Everyone has opinions, and supporting the most reasonable ones does not turn a amazing game like this into "ez mode land" all of a sudden. This line of thinking is very childish and it's hard to take people seriously who think that way. FFA loot doesn't directly make the game any harder to beat. I don't know why they assume it does. It just makes it more tedious and possibly more frustrating when you miss out on an item that could help you progress better and have more fun doing it as a result. If you like tedious and frustrating, then fine. Play it that way. But most people don't, including plenty of GOOD players.

All that being said, the timer system isn't all that bad. I'm glad there's something there, but I don't feel like it's enough. Going back to point 2, I would much rather being able to choose for myself whether or not another player will be able to screw me over in the area that affects me the most. Maybe on a per party basis as others have suggested, or just say per person, but if the person with instanced loot isn't near dying enemies or never influences the fight in any way, they get nothing. And of course, any competent team will pick up on who is just looting up with no effort and kick them, just like in real life.
Going back to point 1, even with 1 or 2 seconds to grab something, there's no guarantee that my computer and connection will be enough to secure the item in time. So even if instanced loot is totally out of the question, I would say increase the timers, please. It would be way more helpful to me than it is hurtful to FFA lovers, and allow me to concentrate on the game itself instead of trying to click on items. Huge improvement in my gameplay right there. And I can guarantee that the majority of the current player base would probably enjoy the option too.

Guys, thread is 500 pages long. Short responses make more sense than long ones. Awareness, please.

I enjoy the pickup scramble that happens when a boss dies in full party. If I'm not on my toes, I miss out on loot. If I am on my toes, I benefit from other people being too slow or not understanding the UI.

I think that rather than changing the system, just make the UI a little easier to use. Some ideas:

- Make it clearer with highlighting and pointer mechanics what will be picked up, when you click.
- Better pointer graphics - This isn't just a looting issue, but a quality of life issue for the entire game.
- Implement some kind of "real estate priority" - so the display tile for a rare gets to display before that of a magic. That way, the clickboxes for rares show up right above where the item dropped, even when 50 items are on the screen. As it is now, this seems random and sometimes the clicktab for a rare is across the screen from where that rare is. Or off the screen all together.
- Filtering options that make more sense. Right now the optimal thing to do right before a big loot explosion is toggle Z so all loot is off. Then when you've nabbed all your items (or timers are out) toggle Z again so all loot is on. Filtering should make a little more sense and involve a little less strategy.

"

Nicholas_Steel wrote:

"

TheSwampDog wrote:

There's no facts here. It is purely your opinion that making the changing isn't 'healthy'. It is wrong that changing it would achieve 'nothing'. It would certainly appease a number of players, myself included. And the game has been changing since it's first Alpha, it is not yet cast in stone what the game is and isn't.

Although it will certainly please a lot of players, it will also piss off a lot of players. Specifically the crowed the game is originally geared towards will be pissed. And again, the game is not designed for the mainstream crowed.

@Killbilly
FFA is better but it does indeed need a way to punish ninja looters. Player Killing is an excellent way of achieving this but I personally do not like such a mechanic. I can not think of anything other then Player Killing though and thus have no solution that would suite myself personally.

All I know is that I will hate Instanced Loot.

So, FFA proponents like you are just wimpy griefers.

"CUT THROAT GAME" "REAL COMPETITION" "MAN'S GAME" "DIABLO 3 THAT WAY" "CASUALS BE DAMNED"

But when PK gets mention, you all hide your heads between your legs.

Because in truth, this is not about cuthroat-ness. It is about consecuence free griefing. That's the real game being played here.

Allright, you do not like PK.

How about this instead. Anybody that takes an item that was assigned to another player, gets a big fat red "!" on top of their heads. So you cannot be killed, but you cannot hide anymore.

Would that be OK or is that too much consecuences for you?

"

fevgatos wrote:

For everyone who is too bored to read countless pages, I'll sum it up

FFA in a PVE game has no place. FFA should ALWAYS come with consequences on the "I pick everything up" players. Currently, it puts them in a protective bubble, aka. carebearing. It's exactly like throwing rocks to a caged lion, no more no less.

With the current timer, FFA is actually instanced, cause everyone without brain damage can pick his gear during those 5 seconds. Problem is, that's exactly what sucking away any form of enjoyment. Instead of focusing on the fun parts we must stop doing those fun things and start clicking the ground for loot. It's not a skill based mechanic, so it doesn't warrant a grow some skills and do it yourself hardcore mentality. It doesnt come with any consequence (someone killing your for the gear you just looted) so again, it doesnt have any form of hardcore into it. Anyone can do it, and if everyone actually does it, the loot becames instanced, but with the added "feature" of everyone camping the items with the timer. That's a burden, it slows down the game, it frustrates the fuck out of everyone, it removes any kind of atmosphere while it is supposed to be in place exactly for the opposite reason. So, instead of FFA OR instanced, we currently have a system that takes the WORSE out of both mechanisms and puts them together.

+1

What they should really do is remove timers and make the game the way they want it. I've got no problem with FFA loot. If there's a person staying back doing nothing and grabbing all the rares, kick him. It's that easy. I like being competitive in grabbing loot against my friend that I play with so I prefer FFA. Timers make this even easier to grab the loot. I have no idea what everyone's problem is.

Nobody was holding a gun to their head to add timers. It was a choice they made. Timers were the way they wanted it when they last addressed it. Removing timers and making the game the way they want it are mutually exclusive goals.

Loot sucks because everyone stops and stacks on loot, then some die. Also if you ninja and it was the leader's loot you get kicked. Such a dumb system

"

wrathmar wrote:

"

fevgatos wrote:

For everyone who is too bored to read countless pages, I'll sum it up

FFA in a PVE game has no place. FFA should ALWAYS come with consequences on the "I pick everything up" players. Currently, it puts them in a protective bubble, aka. carebearing. It's exactly like throwing rocks to a caged lion, no more no less.

With the current timer, FFA is actually instanced, cause everyone without brain damage can pick his gear during those 5 seconds. Problem is, that's exactly what sucking away any form of enjoyment. Instead of focusing on the fun parts we must stop doing those fun things and start clicking the ground for loot. It's not a skill based mechanic, so it doesn't warrant a grow some skills and do it yourself hardcore mentality. It doesnt come with any consequence (someone killing your for the gear you just looted) so again, it doesnt have any form of hardcore into it. Anyone can do it, and if everyone actually does it, the loot becames instanced, but with the added "feature" of everyone camping the items with the timer. That's a burden, it slows down the game, it frustrates the fuck out of everyone, it removes any kind of atmosphere while it is supposed to be in place exactly for the opposite reason. So, instead of FFA OR instanced, we currently have a system that takes the WORSE out of both mechanisms and puts them together.

+1

+2

Why don't they do a random roll for all the "good" loot that drops, a box pops up for a few seconds with the loot in you can pick "roll" or "leave" if 4 people roll then highest roller wins it. If there is a few seconds timer on it just like the timer they have now then it still keeps the game play flowing. I have had problems with collision where even tho i'm right next to my loot, because there is someone in the way my character runs up to the loot, gets stuck on the person next to the loot and then doesn't pick it up.

I feel this system still caters the system you have now but solves a few issues with not getting to the loot in time and collision problems, lag and so on. as the box will pop up for everyone in the same place just need to be quick with your decision to decide if you want the loot or not.

Also solves the issue of the people who join a party then go off soloing mobs and chests rather than helping there team mates out, they would benefit more from working as a team and this would also speed up the game play.

Make looting timer longer for your stupid game