Looting -- The official thread for discussing the loot system. Updated 18th March, 2013.

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Nicholas_Steel wrote:

Instanced Loot will result in a party of 3 players experiencing a 300% chance of receiving loot per monster killed while Free For All Loot will result in 200% chance of receiving loot. With 6 players there is 600% chance of receiving loot with Instanced Loot Vs. 400% in FFA.

Instanced Loot also opens up a slippery slope towards enabling each players Loot Quantity and Loot Quality stats to affect each players loot spawns regardless of who dealt the final blow.

I am in favour of FFA loot and just felt like listing some of the differences between FFA and IL.

this is a result of bad programming Instanced loot not an excuse why instanced loot is bad...as i already said the Instanced loot cant' reward more (or very much more) than soloing.

what i am saying is that with instanced loot i want the loot that i woulda take myself but playing with strangers (with the potential to become ingame friends and hung around more)

everything above that is bad programming and game mechanincs NOT instanced loot problem

I wouldn't mind a loot system similar to Torchlight 2 or Diablo 3. I know it's verboten to say Diablo 3 did anything positive, but the one thing that wasn't broke in the game was the way loot was distributed. The loot itself might have been utter garbage, but at least the way it got distributed was good.

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Machida wrote:

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Nicholas_Steel wrote:

Instanced Loot will result in a party of 3 players experiencing a 300% chance of receiving loot per monster killed while Free For All Loot will result in 200% chance of receiving loot. With 6 players there is 600% chance of receiving loot with Instanced Loot Vs. 400% in FFA.

Instanced Loot also opens up a slippery slope towards enabling each players Loot Quantity and Loot Quality stats to affect each players loot spawns regardless of who dealt the final blow.

I am in favour of FFA loot and just felt like listing some of the differences between FFA and IL.

They could surely program it in a way where the same amount of loot would drop. Quantity/Quality is a more legitimate point and something I'm sure people will disagree on, but as (I think) it is at the moment it could just be shared between all group members.

They could, but the reduction in loot per player when playing in a group game would feel underwhelming in comparison to single player.

Now that I've read the decision and design of the current loot system as well as the philosophy behind it, all I can suggest is doubling or tripling the minimum amount of time that loot is locked for. Do not change the maximum amount of time.

Okay, since people are busting balls over what's fact and what isn't, I'll try to propose this argument in a way that strictly separates fact from opinion.

Fact: Whatever the ratio of unsatisfied, angry, frustrated players is compared to satisfied/happy ones is, what we do know for sure is that it's a very significant ratio. Whether that percentage of the total player base is 25%, 50%, or 75% really just determines the extent of the issue, rather than whether or not there is an issue. There is definitely an issue.

Therefore...

Fact: A significant percentage of players have had really negative first experiences when trying out the group system.

And...

Fact: A significant percentage of players have altogether abandoned grouping in a game that is supposed to be a definitively multiplayer experience.

Therefore...

Fact: FFA completely ruins the multiplayer aspect of the game for many people, but those who support it feel that it is more fun and feels cut-throat as intended.
Opinion: Contrastingly, instanced looting would not completely ruin multiplayer for anyone, but those who oppose it may feel that it is less fun and less cut-throat.

Fact: Complaints about instanced looting in other games are so few and far between that you can't even find enthusiastic complaints about it on Google.
Opinion: Instanced looting is the only aspect of Diablo 3 that both fanboys and haters widely regarded as positive.

Fact: If you type "FFA loot is awesome/I love FFA loot/instanced loot sucks/etc" or similar queries in Google, all the top hits are ironically against FFA and the vast majority of the topics are in reference to Path of Exile.
Implication: There are more people who vocally oppose FFA than those who vocally support it. FFA loot supporters are mainly only vocal about supporting FFA when directly in confrontation with anti-FFA supporters. FFA supporters feel that the purity of their game is being threatened by anti-FFA supporters.

Fact: No matter what the issue being presented is, there are those extremely loyal to the development team who will always agree with the precedent.
Opinion: To most of the people who are supporting FFA, supporting the purity of PoE is more important to them than what the loot system actually is.
Opinion: I suspect that if the devs originally implemented instanced looting and had well-written justification for it, the current FFA-supporters would not be adamantly (vocally) opposed to it and if they were, it would be much less of an outcry than the current situation.

Opinion: FFA supporters consider themselves purists, but suspect the opposing viewpoint are casual carebears who want to dilute the game, thereby making it less true to its essence.
Opinion: Anti-FFA supporters also consider themselves purists, but feel that the loot system actually hurts the purity of the game and distracts from its essence.

Conclusion: Nobody is trying to fundamentally change the purity of this beautiful game. Those of us who are vocal about the looting system are only vocal because we feel part of our gaming experience is ruined by it.

We understand that there are also many people who prefer/have fun with it the way things are, but if we assume that the player base is divided 50/50 on this issue, half of the player base having more fun with this system does not justify the experience being ruined for the other half. I don't think anyone can honestly argue that their multiplayer experience would be ruined by instanced looting or longer timers or whatever opposing arguments there are to this system. Therefore, I think we can safely and objectively say that the disadvantages of the current system outweigh the benefits.

One's latency should not be a factor in trying to pick up loot in a game where looting is one, if not, the biggest draw.


As much as a I want instanced loot, I know it ain't going to happen. But simply experimenting with increasing the timers can't be a bad thing.



It is beta. I am sure you "hardcore pros at ARPGs" can stand a little change here and there.

Please don't change the current system, the compromise is more than fair for ranged and those with latency. I like that the design decision was to keep it at least semi cut-throat. I have faith in GGG and that this will be one game that whiners and carebears won't ruin, however.

@Luvz

Generally the more vocal party in a dispute is a minority under these circumstances. Why? Well you only tend to speak out when there is something you don't like. So with this in mind it would seem that more people are enjoying the current system (And staying silent/playing the damn game) then there are those complaining about it.

There are a few of us here sticking up for the current system and a few against the system, the few against the system may post more often but is generally just the same people over and over trying to make the issue appear bigger then it really is just to get there way.

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Nicholas_Steel wrote:

Instanced Loot will result in a party of 3 players experiencing a 300% chance of receiving loot per monster killed while Free For All Loot will result in 200% chance of receiving loot. With 6 players there is 600% chance of receiving loot with Instanced Loot Vs. 400% in FFA.

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mobutu wrote:

-In a party of 6, ffa-loot, one instance cleared: total of 100 items dropped from the total monsters on that instance;
-In a party of 6, longer_time/instanced loot, one instance cleared: total of 100 items dropped from the total monsters on that instance.
Nothing changes at all regarding the economy. It's at dummies level, I can't explain better than that.

Please read the topic before making false assumptions.

and again the reds ignoring the possibility to abuse this ffa system. Melees can block me as range class from picking up my items, and casters can do that with ice wall too...

issue or intended?

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Nicholas_Steel wrote:

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Machida wrote:

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Nicholas_Steel wrote:

Instanced Loot will result in a party of 3 players experiencing a 300% chance of receiving loot per monster killed while Free For All Loot will result in 200% chance of receiving loot. With 6 players there is 600% chance of receiving loot with Instanced Loot Vs. 400% in FFA.

Instanced Loot also opens up a slippery slope towards enabling each players Loot Quantity and Loot Quality stats to affect each players loot spawns regardless of who dealt the final blow.

I am in favour of FFA loot and just felt like listing some of the differences between FFA and IL.

They could surely program it in a way where the same amount of loot would drop. Quantity/Quality is a more legitimate point and something I'm sure people will disagree on, but as (I think) it is at the moment it could just be shared between all group members.

They could, but the reduction in loot per player when playing in a group game would feel underwhelming in comparison to single player.

That's fair.

So let's say the timer gets bumped to I don't know, another 5 seconds. And the pick up range gets increased. You see, people crowd around the items waiting for the timer to run off. Also due to pathing and how some zones are designed it just takes a good while to get close.

Essentially, let's make it so 90% or more of the time, no matter your ping or framerate or possible blockades around the item fountain (and I have seen this happen), you get your items and you cannot get them stolen with the sole exception of freak accidents.

Would you be happy with that?