Looting -- The official thread for discussing the loot system. Updated 18th March, 2013.

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syperzin wrote:

Everyone knows that FFA is harder than Instanced loot, that dont necessarily mean better or worse but in a competitive environment people will choose the easier/safer way to play and succeed.
Choose: Harder game or Easier game.
I still think people wont play FFA if there is option for instanced, but we'll see. (IMO)

Common, quit the drama, the loot-options will be only for default league so in races/whatever league there will be still only one loot category: ffa.
Remember these facts:
default league = fun and relaxation (please don't give me all that "full-respec & etcera" crap);
races/whatever leagues = competition (loot included).
(but we all know what is really happening in races, the party acts as one, all the loot is capitalized for and on the team, there is absolutely no loot-tension as the devs wanted to be, etc. To put it in these words: the team acts like playing solo)

My opinion is that default league groups should get an option of higher timer length or another similar mechanism. Other leagues should probably stay FFA.

I'm no great fan of fully instanced for several reasons and there are times where I don't mind FFA. (With Friends)

As it stands, I find the current timer a bad compromise. It's too short for people that want a more friendly game and it annoys those that want FFA.

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Worldbreaker wrote:

Loot is the gameplay.

Killing monsters is the gameplay.
One's finesse and skills in killing monsters should matter.
Loot is just the reward. The mouse clicking ability, the ping and whatever should not matter at all in taking the reward.

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Worldbreaker wrote:

It is competitive, we have PVP and a ladder. If the loot was instanced, timed, or FFA, those variables come into play if all 3 are active choices in the league.

If we have a ladder in default is just for the kicks of it. I dont give a rats ass on my ladder position. I don't play for that ladder, I don't play for the competition, i play for fun and relaxion. If i wanted competition then i would enlist myself on the races/whatever leagues.
Again, maybe you understand:
-In a party of 6, ffa-loot, one instance cleared: total of 100 items dropped from the total monsters on that instance;
-In a party of 6, longer_time/instanced loot, one instance cleared: total of 100 items dropped from the total monsters on that instance.
Nothing changes at all regarding the economy. It's at dummies level, I can't explain better than that.

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Vooodu wrote:

Well, maybe then this game just ISN'T for you.

low level retarded argument.

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DavidJerk wrote:

It's a cutthroat world.

Can my character cut your character throat in default league?
No?
Then it's not a cutthroat world.
Again, explanation at a dummy level.

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Vooodu wrote:

Half of that 325 pages of pages is ...
The other half is ...

Yeah, because you counted. Go figure
It's so f*ckin obvious that the majority want loot-options that even a blind could see it.

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mobutu wrote:

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Vooodu wrote:

Half of that 325 pages of pages is ...
The other half is ...

Yeah, because you counted. Go figure

I COUNTED
I'M STILL COUNTING

BY PAGE 70:
- 168 Users had participated
- Chris last seen on Page 54
- Kyadytim had a pro tier idea back on pages 40-44; something along the lines of if you're not looting you're getting an XP boost. Well thought out posts, go back and read them.
- Multiple Leagues is the most common "other compromise" with "Leader Decides" being the next most common.
- A lot of the people in "No Definable Opinion" were simply whining about the concept of FFA without staking out a position. They were dumped in there for not expressly giving an opinion, but most there seem to have misgivings about FFA.
- New participants start flooding in around page 60. Page 66 goes off topic and leads to a load of No Opinion allocations.

For Instanced (19):
Oasisbhrnw (Silver), Vandro (Bronze), Rambada (Basic), Silver (Basic), Appolian, Deletrix, el_puno, Fruitlord, Golbarin, Isobar, Kempeth, Malice, Mondune, PiotrStark, Rhesos, sommarlov, Tnargav, turbo4i4ka, willam819,

For Timer Extension (3):
CarniavalKlowns, Shark, THEMuffinMan

For Other Compromises (84):
Covert (Diamond), deoxys (Diamond), Skivverus (Diamond), Tertium_Quid (Diamond), Wittgenstein (Diamond), SpudOfDoom (Gold), bersi23 (Silver), Arkwright (Bronze), DarkRookie (Basic), ACLerok, Archartugan, Awesomeasusual, Bartuc, betamancer, bkboggy, CAKE, Corpsepaint, cp_clegg, cybrim, darkcoug, darklord, drakkos, eversorgod, Fluffy, Happy_Thoughts, Hartbrot, Herflik, Kahoder, Killendino, Kress, Kyadytim, Lichalfred, Medenna, Mitch424242, Narfi, nermind, ness, Nightblaze1, obscenerainbow, p0rt, permaximum, Phouriuh, PoERickety, purepower, Riflo, Rustychops, Sadinar, samerath, ShadowTiger, StonerPride, the_jebler, tormenta, zeto, ZhugeLiang, ixarus, Solipcyst, Arcolus, Madav, Celtica, frage069, Stalin828, Dertold, subbypuppyjay, Jive299, Cipher, reiv, Bloodyscissors, zriL, Scorpion, GunHammers, heavensDemise, Archfiend, xMCxRogue, Boryoku, Magni_Steelheart, Myrdinn, Killimangiro, nanahsu, monks, Rokksolid, insidethesun, TheOatman, Moonshine211, BLACKMAGE,

For Keeping Current (16):
Chris (Developer), Zidjian (Silver), tpapp157 (Bronze), Drunk, Hubb, innoruk, Kalyndrel, vahss3, Wisdom, Zephyroth, Menace1024, excalaber, wildleg, respon, cmemmons, manny

Endorses Full FFA (18):
sartormc (Silver), Kaylos (Bronze), andrevv84, Bulkathos, ieatsoap, resira, Vilneus, Zirfith, turtuma85, Kerish, Abydos, jmackay, Smradd, MarcelTorres, PsychoRomeo, Alahadi, Celestias, Scopen

No Definable Opinion/Just Asked Questions (28):
Necx (Gold), wakko (Silver), Ameladol (Basic), madwasp, Nopchar, ResidentHippy, Septile, Ambergino, valaki8, ViralTonic, elhomerjas, Puphy, xerdion94, Kookro, Bladewing, Steelprimus, Starzon29, Kayze, spiritual12, balzdragon, Muerte18, Ferous, Megas_, Mxyzptlk, Icoblablubb, Dogrec, VaJayJayWalker, gokub27

Getting people in is not hard at all.

Retaining them is.

This will make or break the game, no doubt.

Once a new player gets past the veil cast by the huge passive tree he will have 2 options.

1 Be a soloplayer; very little capital gain on this type of customer as they have no drive to "show off" microtransaction purchases.

2 Play in public parties and stand a fifty fifty chance of disliking the loot system (at LEAST) which you should know, d3 being the lead example, loot is THE reason people keep playing RPGs...

Starting to get the point here?

Risking half of your player base basically at the critical moment of potential retention on how to distribute loot is madness.

perhaps an equation makes things easier to grasp

having loot = having players
having current ratracelootminigame = potentially lose 50% playerbase

having customizable loot rules = retain all players and everybody is happy, not ONE of those "cut-throats" that want FFA looting will quit the game if there is an option to roll on gear, not one.

yet plenty will quit with the current system in place

how can it not be bad design if half of your player base shuns your premier partymaking service? and this will make retention plummet dramatically

easy math tbh

moikpei, that is one great initiative. "Sisif"-one :)

If I can make a suggestion:
Please change the "For other compromises" to "For loot-options".
It's more clear this way.

Anyway, i can foresee the selfentitled-pro-hardcore wannabies argument to this: you manipulated the results :)
and, the old-time "argument": the number is too low to be representative :)
Of course they know that the majority want loot-options, they just won't admit it.

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mobutu wrote:

moikpei, that is one great initiative. "Sisif"-one :)

If I can make a suggestion:
Please change the "For other compromises" to "For loot-options".
It's more clear this way.

Anyway, i can foresee the selfentitled-pro-hardcore wannabies argument to this: you manipulated the results :)
and, the old-time "argument": the number is too low to be representative :)
Of course they know that the majority want loot-options, they just won't admit it.

Yeah, I'll re-label it.
I think 70 pages is all I'm going to do tonight. It took about two hours. If I spend two hours a night it will take all week to catch up. :/
It is a good read in the end whenever you find a cool set of points. So, worth it.