Looting -- The official thread for discussing the loot system. Updated 18th March, 2013.

"

TheSwampDog wrote:

"

Plastic_Cup wrote:

A FFA loot system keeps people from watching their TV or reading a forum while in a group if they expect to get loot.

Only for those who enjoy FFA loot. An FFA-only loot system keeps many people from being in a group. Period. Those of us who dislike FFA will NOT join your system. You lose nothing by letting us have our own, AND you improve the game you enjoy, because it retains more players.

"

Plastic_Cup wrote:

Having instanced loot promotes non-competitive play.

Non-competitive is exactly what I want. Competitive and 'being on the same team' makes no sense to me. If you prefer competitive, play that way, I'm not suggesting it's removal. But what do you gain from not allowing those who already avoid it the chance to group up?

By your same argument, why would you avoid a chance to get MORE loot if there is only an element of competition to gain it with complete strangers.

More people = more loot potential, with a risk, I don't understand why that's a problem.

You are basically saying you should be entitled to more loot with 0 risk simply by jumping into a public party with people you have never met before.

Think of it this way, you guys share a common interest in that you want to kill stuff, but when it comes down to it, every person in that public party is in it for themselves and loot centric people like yourself are testament to that fact.

That said, another way of doing it might be instancing your loot in a party but relinquishing your right to any party bonuses at all, in which case you may as well keep playing solo anyway.

I really fail to understand how the way loot is handled keeps anyone from joining a party... In a party you WILL get more (and often times better) loot from mobs because of party bonuses.



(EDIT)
I don't mean to be an asshole but I REALLY hate when players use the word 'casual' to describe their lack of ability. Being casual has absolutely nothing to do with not knowing what you are doing, being slow, being unattentive, or just plain sucking at a game. Being a casual player at a game means you don't play a lot.


Also, loot in this game in parties is distributed -RANDOMLY- not fairly. If loot were fair a lot of 'casual' players would find out in a hurry that the 'nerdy hardcore player' does a ton more damage than they do and always gets the good drops.

"

Plastic_Cup wrote:

By your same argument, why would you avoid a chance to get MORE loot if there is only an element of competition to gain it with complete strangers.

More people = more loot potential, with a risk, I don't understand why that's a problem.

You are basically saying you should be entitled to more loot with 0 risk simply by jumping into a public party with people you have never met before.

Forcing a loot system that favors lechers does not make the game more challenging. Your argument is that the game is SO EASY while in a group that the loot system is necessary to prevent people from watching TV while playing.

I agree that co-op is easy but I disagree that the loot system is the best way to increase the difficulty. Set the base timer to 5 seconds, slightly increase monster HP, and add a 2% monster movement/attack/cast speed buff per player.

If players want increased amounts of loot then they need to earn it by facing harder challenges.

"

Plastic_Cup wrote:

By your same argument, why would you avoid a chance to get MORE loot if there is only an element of competition to gain it with complete strangers.

Because some people have a different playstyle and don't enjoy competing with their teammates. They tend to get LESS loot because they have a worse connection or simply can't focus like people who don't have responsibilities outside of the game. A lot of us could loot ninja fairly well, but we find it boring and unfun. Its not that hard to understand.

"

Plastic_Cup wrote:

You are basically saying you should be entitled to more loot with 0 risk simply by jumping into a public party with people you have never met before.

The only risk in single player is the risk that you take in killing the monsters. Why should it be any different with other players? Can't the risk simply be that with more players=more difficult monsters? Who asked for more loot? What people want is their share without competeing for it.

"

Plastic_Cup wrote:

That said, another way of doing it might be instancing your loot in a party but relinquishing your right to any party bonuses at all, in which case you may as well keep playing solo anyway.

People like us don't want to play coop for EXTRA bonuses in loot. We just enjoy playing coop and want it to be fun instead of frustrating.

"

Plastic_Cup wrote:

I really fail to understand how the way loot is handled keeps anyone from joining a party... In a party you WILL get more (and often times better) loot from mobs because of party bonuses.

That is not necessarily true. Also you have a risk of losing out on very rare items to your teammates (that have your name on it) which can be extremely irritating.

"

Plastic_Cup wrote:

I don't mean to be an asshole but I REALLY hate when players use the word 'casual' to describe their lack of ability. Being casual has absolutely nothing to do with not knowing what you are doing, being slow, being unattentive, or just plain sucking at a game. Being a casual player at a game means you don't play a lot.

Its usually not a lack of ability, its lack of enjoying that playstyle which is a big difference. Not knowing what your doing? Really? Who doesn't know how to stand on a drop or run up on an enemy about to die so that you can ninja everything. Thats non really that skillful. Who plays this game without being attentive? People lose loot even when they pay full attention. Last time I checked Chris said that this game was build for solo play. So why is it that someone can be great at "The game" solo and then according to you "suck" at coop. Thats pretty dumb.

"

Plastic_Cup wrote:

Also, loot in this game in parties is distributed -RANDOMLY- not fairly. If loot were fair a lot of 'casual' players would find out in a hurry that the 'nerdy hardcore player' does a ton more damage than they do and always gets the good drops.

Randomly is fairly. Everything in this game is randomized even the orbs. Do you complain if your buddy gets a 4L on the first try and you don't? I doubt it and thats because its random, based on odds/rolls.

"

Plastic_Cup wrote:

A FFA loot system keeps people from watching their TV or reading a forum while in a group if they expect to get loot. Having instanced loot promotes lazy, non-competitive play.

Lazy? So not fighting over loot with your "teammates" is considered lazy? I think ignoring the monsters to snipe loot is lazy and selfish. But you can't blame people for doing it when the system is designed to encourage you to do so.

Non-competitive is the point. If you want competitive this game will provide cutthroat leagues for you to do that. And those will truly be competitive not a loot snipe fest.

If you want people to be more on their toes then you may as well complain that the game is too easy. Pitting players against one another is an artificial way to increase difficulty. If people are watching television while playing the game then chances are its just not hard enough.

"

Plastic_Cup wrote:

You are basically saying you should be entitled to more loot with 0 risk simply by jumping into a public party with people you have never met before.

I would be perfectly fine with accepting that the instanced version of group loot gets no group bonuses.

Also, it's not just about loot. I want to be on a team where everyone on the team has the same primary goal, the survival of the team. I NEVER want to see a player on my team not fighting while mobs rage so he can grab some loot. That's putting himself above the team.


One of the main attractions of group play is that it is cooperative. As in, working together, as in, one for all and all for one. THAT is what I want out of team play, and the current system favors selfishness.

While I do prefer the "unique loot for each player" system, I do also appreciate that you folks are doing your own thing and trying to be innovative. Glad to see it...

The main problem I see--and have experienced--is that the short timers actively encourage people not killing anything to wait for the timer to roll down to snipe everyone else's items. Combine that with the challenge of grabbing the right item, possibly needing to rearrange your inventory to make the rare sword fit, and it just gets messy.

I for one would really appreciate the timer being closer to 15s: long enough to fix a couple things, short enough to still have adrenaline.

GGG will lose many players because of this big problem (FFA-Loot is totaly Crap).
We started to play the Game with 3 people.
After 1 Day (!!!) me and one friend stop playing because of the lootsystem.
It destroys the groupplay complete. This isnt fun, it allways about to be fast enough to get the loot.
NOT everything what is oldschool is good!
We will come back when the lootsystem changes.
But with that, the Game is a singleplayer Game, and thats not what we want to play.

like srsly? so u ppl have no sense of fair play or u cant find urself a trustworthy teammates and want to change the loot system because of it?

lol. nuff said.

FFA loot systems have sullied friendships in the past. I was hoping me and my friends could work it out this time around but it simply isn't happening. Friends aside, no way am I grouping with other players in public games with a FFA loot system.

"

Lilithian wrote:

like srsly? so u ppl have no sense of fair play or u cant find urself a trustworthy teammates and want to change the loot system because of it?

lol. nuff said.

Not a lot of people do have people with a sense of fair play to game with, and when you can use any item and any gem in the game, you'll have a lot of players picking up anything and everything to try out different builds, despite another member in the party with a specialized build that could make use of that item.

It's one of the reasons that most people did MF runs in Diablo 2 in single player passworded games, it was just less of a hassle, and you could keep all of the loot for yourself. Remember all of the Baal runs in Diablo 2? People crowded around Baal and waited anxiously with alt held down for the loot drop so they could snag everything up even though there was usually one really high level player doing the runs for everyone else that was leeching? I see the same thing happening here, for the most part, and with the community being so varied, I can see a lot of people shying away from playing with complete strangers when the chance of losing possible loot they can actually make use of rises.

If I were to change anything about the loot system as is, I'd put a few more seconds on the timer and not make it count down really fast when you're standing on top of it. Seeing players stop fighting and run to grab loot which was tagged as their own, completely ditching group fights in favor of a possible upgrade - or just because they saw yellow or orange letters - is really annoying, and it's happened in parties I've been in before and has got party members killed because of that greed.