I'm not sure I understand the complaints about ruined economy

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arandan#3174 wrote:

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juicermcgooser#3221 wrote:

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arandan#3174 wrote:

Nobody is ignoring it?
I just told you that unless you're prepared to do what they're doing, it is not worth your time to run temples if all you care about is profit.

This has always been the case with non straight forward leagues in poe and will continue to be. Players who knew how to set up their Betrayal boards were orders of magnitude more efficient at generating currency from that mechanic; same goes for heist, sanctum, delve etc. etc.

What I'm trying to communicate to you is that you have other options. Do not be a meta slave.

oh sure you have "other options" which are 99% less efficient in generating currency LMAO. problem is the difference between meta and other options. in 0.3 league there wasnt a way to min-max divine printer mechanics as it is in this league. guaranteed 70% rarity + 30% effectiveness on T15 maps is a stupid meta too. This crap has to be reworked from scratch

I've explained this already.

You cannot print everything in the game using that strat. The more people that jump on the bandwagon, the less the supply of everything else, which renders doing other things MORE profitable, not less.

Is it going to be as profitable as running a pre-set temple? Obviously no, but crying over spilled milk isn't going to get you anything either.

What is factual is that you DO have other options and this scenario is going to repeat itself many times over, so the choice is either accept it, or stop playing trade.

and your assumption is wrong, fractures and mirrors all drop alot in temples yet they rise up in price the most, divine is worthless for top few percenters abusing the temples, but it ruins the economy for everyone else too. compare the economy charts with 0.3 and standard league, its crazy sh*t happening here. imagine waking up looking market and realizing value of the currency you (the casual player) banked has dropped 50% overnight. Funny how people come up with all the excuses and justify that this is ok, are you all delusional or something?
if you cant think for yourself just simply look at the charts, look at the FACTS...

Fractures don't drop in temples.
The value of all your currency hasn't dropped 50%.

Follow your own advice at the end of that rant.

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arandan#3174 wrote:

Fractures don't drop in temples.
The value of all your currency hasn't dropped 50%.

Follow your own advice at the end of that rant.

just look at player retention on steamcharts and compare it to previous seasons lmao

https://steamdb.info/app/2694490/charts/#1m

Do you know what those dips are? People being asleep. Are you going to blame that for player retention dropping as well?

I'd tell you exactly what you are, but alas it is no longer allowed to call a spade a spade on the internet, so yeah.

Last league had a pretty decent retention at the 3 week mark for PoE, but alas, this league isn't all that different from two leagues ago. Nor even super radically different from previous.

A bit worse, but not really end of the world -bad.

Far as I can tell looking at the trade, I doubt the trade is the main issue behind worse retention than previous league; I think it's more that many people don't enjoy the new class and the new league quite as much as the previous league, and the end game changes that were promised got pushed back to the next league.

Players are also a bit worn out by now, given that all leagues have had pretty decent starter amount of players.

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arandan#3174 wrote:

https://steamdb.info/app/2694490/charts/#1m

Do you know what those dips are? People being asleep. Are you going to blame that for player retention dropping as well?

I'd tell you exactly what you are, but alas it is no longer allowed to call a spade a spade on the internet, so yeah.

bruh, youre totally delusional in everything youre saying, youre basically denying reality. by your logic it looks like in 0.3 ppl didnt sleep at all, and the 24h 120k peak which was 300k 2 weeks ago doesnt matter at all. Lmao.

tl:dr - Do not intervene.

There are complaints about "ruined economy" because more than half of the game is about "farming for stuff". It might be items, it might be materials (divines, essences, omens...). You know, the works. I've no doubt you are aware of this. Just wanted to form a baseline.

As expected, people want to obtain power; more damage, more survival, speed, convenience... And some of those are hidden behind pay walls. For example, if you do not like how sanctum works (Trial of Sekhemas), the only way to obtain a Temporalis is to buy it from someone else and to do that you have to farm divines or "stuff" that can be converted to divines. Basic stuff. Another baseline.

Now let's dig a little bit deeper to find what people are claiming the problem to be and figure out if that is actually the case.

- People claim, "the economy is ruined because everybody is farming Temple and everybody is making hundreds or even thousands of divines."

This is wrong. If everybody was indeed farming Temple and made hundreds/thousands of divines, alternative stuff (decent, usable goods) that are not farmable in Temple would increase in price many times over, this would create incentive to farm alternative goods, people would farm alternative goods and market would stabilize and purchasing power would more or less settle and in the end economy would be fine.

People are not "farming" Temple, they are trying to "build" a Temple to farm. The problem lies in here. Allow me to explain why I think "it is".

Without intervention, people would eventually build a temple and start farming currency themselves. But "eventually" is not a reliable baseline in this game. We have experienced this time and time again for over 10 years. Also, this is a temporary league. People have limited time to farm and after a certain time everything is reset.

Early abusers (streamers and no-lifers) will farm a mechanic extensively and GGG will come and nerf that mechanic to the ground and call it a "balance" or "fix". I have no doubt they are doing this with good intentions but in the end, they end up "sacrificing many for the good of the select few".

This already happened at least twice this league. First Abyss gets "fixed", and then the Holten method is "fixed". So, people know the mechanic will be nerfed, they feel the FOMO and this is why they are saying the economy is ruined. They are stressed in a videogame which was supposed to offer them a good time.

This is what I think. I might be wrong, but assuming I'm not, writing this here without offering a solution would be a waste as I'm sure most people have already stopped reading this unless they are actually interested in a potential solution/idea.

So, what would be the solution?

No intervention. That's it. Unless a mechanic is breaking servers or unless "early adopters" will be banned (temporarily or permanently) there should be no intervention.

If the issue is not important enough to ban people over it, then it is not important enough to change. And if intervention is inevitable, do it in a way that "the many" is rewarded rather than punished.

If I were to be consulted, I would have suggested 2 alternatives:

a- Declare that there will be no intervention, that this is the season mechanic, that you have your numbers to be used in future (internal) testing. People will relax and either build their temples or farm alternative goods knowing that alternative stuff will increase in price. Market will stabilize.

b- Don't break the mechanic, don't reduce the drops. Make it so that building the temple is easier. Let people chose their rooms, their farming setups and simply go in and farm. Let them experience the fun some others have already done. Reduce the stress. This is a temporary league.

Let people play the game without stressing about next week.

Unless you intervene, the economy will be fine because we are farming more than 1 thing in this game which acts as a counterweight.

If you want to farm divines, go Temple.
If you want to farm omens, go Abyss or Ritual.
If you want to farm uniques, farm whatever drops those uniques.

As long as one source do not drop everything, economy will be fine.

Just don't intervene. Consider every season start as a contract between you and your customer (the player). Don't change it willy nilly.

Thanks for reading.

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Johny_Snow#4778 wrote:

Don't try to think too much. I'll make it easier for you

- the inflation currently after about 2 weeks is the same as the one in the previous league after about 2 months

- there is only one mechanic which makes insane currency with everything else being worthless or close to worthless

Basically, unless you really like making your temple there is no incentive to play in this league. You are wasting your time. The only reason to keep playing is if you are a SSF player.

Bunch of lies buddy. Before lying check poe2.ninja next time

From the perspective of the group I play with this has been a weird League so far economy wise.
We don't watch "Meta Build" streamers and don't really care what the "meta farming method is", normally get enough currency to buy our final upgrades just by playing the game.
This league tho those upgrades (Rakiata's, Crafted i83's etc) have skyrocketed in price so we decided to go see what was going on.
Learned about the Temple (exploit?) and realised it was far to late for us to get that snake going with out temples.

So came to the conclusion we have to do the opposite of the meta and use the market that isn't there.

Basically, buy all the Expedition Precursors/Logbooks and sell Runic Shards, they are like 34 - 1 Div at the moment or something ridiculous like that.
That's like 2 really quick Logbooks for a Div. (Plus whatever you find there)

Once we figured that out we got our upgrades pretty quick.
I'm geared to the teeth now and Zooming T16's with over 100 div banked that I'll never use.

Sure there's guys out there with thousands of Divs and a bunch of Mirrors but they will never use them and those are just there to bring in Viewers, nothing more. (Shock factor... WoW look how much this guy has)

In short the economy is only ruined if you follow the trend, if you play against it it's actually a really good market.

TL;DR - I Agree with Mathil

I stopped playing because of the ruined economy. Not point even trying to compete legitly against guys that drops 100 divines an hour. My hard earned divines are worthless because of them.